by Ben Cohen Over the past 48 hours, we have experienced a very significant exodus of subscribers, all in response to the piece I wrote in favor of President Biden stepping aside. There is nothing like a mass loss of supporters to remind you how precarious your livelihood is. This is not something I take lightly, and I wanted to address the criticisms leveled at me by many of our readers.
I'm still with you but I completely disagree with you. I don't know why we're panicking because of one bad performance. He got better as the debate went along and Trump got worse. Trump lied about everything and didn't answer any questions. Evidence is coming out now that cold medication may have been responsible for some aspects of Biden's performance. So please calm the f down. Everybody.
I'm stunned, saddened, and a bit aghast that you lost subscribers over a single post -- seeing that I thought that uncompromised spirited debate was the entire point of joining the Banter Extended Universe (your posts, the podcast, and the community discussions). I don't agree with everything you say, but I love hearing other views, challenging my own, being proven wrong, being proven right, learning new things, and having a trusted perspective from people way closer to the Beltway than I am. I say we rally to the cause -- I'll promote sharable links as best I can to see it the remaining subscribers can help turn the tide. And to everyone who jumped ship, you have a day to reconsider -- I know you can still see this!
“I'm stunned, saddened, and a bit aghast that” Ben has become a shill for Trump by calling for Biden to step down.
No plan for what’s next. No recognition of the many consequences (party chaos, voter anger at Dems, etc etc), any one of which would hand the election to Trump. Just a “Biden should quit” followed by burying his head in the sand.
I’m more than stunned, saddened, and aghast. I’m disgusted by how easily Ben’s given up.
I am really sorry to hear that so many subscribers decided to express their disagreement with your opinion/newsletter by unsubscribing. Although I disagree/d with you, I feel strongly that everyone should be able to express their honest, sincere opinion without fear of reprisal, especially financial reprisal. The Banter is a major source of political news and opinion for me, particularly since I feel that the NY Times, WaPo, and CNN have gone over to the corporate dark side.
But there are two things that your latest post brought up for me: One, I honestly don’t think, at this late date, that the Democrats can come up with a candidate who will beat Trump, as unfortunate and in some ways incomprehensible as that is for me. Biden is the incumbent, he has an amazing track record, and his deep experience, IMHO, is extremely valuable. And as sick as this makes me to say, I’m just not sure that anyone besides a straight white man can beat Trump in this election cycle. I’m feeling that this country is not ready to elect a woman, for one thing, which makes me angry but I fear it to be true. Maybe there is another white male candidate who could step in at this late date, but I’m skeptical. Not that I have the political insight and expertise that you have. And I’ve been reading that the funds raised for the Biden/Harris ticket are not transferable. I don’t know if that’s true, but that’s what I’ve read. And the stakes are just too high right now to gamble with a new candidate - again, IMHO.
Two, it is possible that Joe Biden is well aware that this might do him in and he’s willing to make that sacrifice. I believe that Obama told him that he “didn’t have to do this” – throw his hat in the ring in 2020 – and he went ahead anyway. If he thinks he could help keep this country from sliding into fascism, he might feel that it would be worth it. It might kill him anyway if he stepped aside and Trump won. The feeling that he might have been able to prevent this could really be devastating, I would think. If Biden wins but then he suffers a health crisis, I do think he chose Kamala Harris very carefully, knowing that he is elderly and his life expectancy is not long in any circumstance.
At any rate, you have my support, even when I don’t agree with you. And I hope some of your former subscribers might reconsider and resubscribe. The Banter is an important voice in these times and we need you guys.
I’ve absolutely no doubt that if the power that be spoke to Biden and said “You’re going to win the election, but the effort is going to kill you before you get inaugurated.” that Biden would make that sacrifice without hesitation.
So you are experiencing the impulsive response of those who don’t like your “performance”. Perhaps consider that and take time to reflect on your own reaction due to a 90 minute poor performance (which we all have experienced sometime in our lives) and the impulse to immediately say Biden should step down. With that said, I don’t think anyone should change their stance based solely on whatever the readers want, you are certainly entitled to your opinion and if you feel they have a substantial base to them, by all means stick with it. But I hope you take some time to really consider if you are looking a the full picture or just having a knee jerk response because he did so poorly. For me, I saw that poor performance (and was saddened by it) but in light of all he has accomplished and is able to do, I see him as a powerful (if not dynamic) leader. I want someone who gets the job done, they don’t have to entertain me. BTW age may be a concern, but JFK was in his 40’s when he was shot and killed, FDR had served four terms when he died: and if anyone had known he was in a wheelchair during the campaign he wouldn’t have won and look at all he accomplished. Don’t count people out just because of a number because unless you have a “magic string” to tell you how long someone has to live, I will judge on ability not age which would actually be ageism in the working world.
And no, I won’t stop following you just because I don’t agree with you. But again, isn’t that what you were advocating for in your original piece?
That’s exactly what he was advocating for. good point. People Should have sat on their hands Friday morning because by afternoon Biden had more support Then ever
I understand your point re: JFK in that anything can happen, but with all due respect, a young president being assassinated - something that few, if any, could reasonably predict would've happened - is not at all comparable to an octogenarian having the appearance of mental decline, something people have been talking about since Biden first started running. Nobody said, "See, I told you JFK would get shot in the head riding through Dallas." But whether they're right by chance, knowledge, or experience, Biden's debate performance, rightly or wrongly, confirmed prior concerns about his mental fitness that people have had for some time. Not all people, but certainly many.
No, it didn’t confirm anything other than he (like anyone else) can have a bad night for any number of reasons (illness, seasonal allergies, medication that was taken to deal with either of those, just plain being exhausted b/c you’re the president and not getting enough sleep)…none of which are age.
Also - and again I sincerely mean this with respect as you're not my enemy, you're my ally, and I have no ill will towards you - but you state that his performance didn't confirm anything in the minds of others with a certainty that just isn't realistic. The very fact that people are having these conversations means some people are concerned. It's not reasonable to think his performance didn't confirm *some* people's prior assumptions about his age and mental acuity because they've told us it did. Many times now. Now whether it did for enough people to make a difference remains to be seen. And perhaps this too shall pass. But it certainly did happen. There's nothing to be gained from pretending otherwise.
First of all…see apology above 🙂. Now onward…I don’t pretend it doesn’t happen, rather I call attention to falseness of such beliefs and thinking. It was actually my job for decades and while one on one, I am often able to help those with limited thinking patterns learn to reality check themselves, I forget that on the broader conversation, it is more difficult. Our public is too dependent on false representations and fail to do their due diligence. Perception does not equal reality. Perception skews ones sense of reality. To say the former is kind of like endorsing alternative facts. There is no such thing as alternative facts, there are facts which can be substantiated with data and there’s beliefs (opinions) that may or may not be substantiated on facts or logical fallacies.
And this "but, nice try" stuff... the snark does nothing constructive. I am trying to talk to you as a mature adult ally wanting to save our beloved nation. I'm having an honest conversation with you. The instinct to snap back in such ways is poison to our collective good. It does not make more allies, which is what our goal should be. I wish you the best, Susan.
You’re right, it did come across as snarky and for that I apologize. I still stand behind fighting against the false narrative of applying a false equivalency to a one night poor performance (which that is what the debate is…a performance) with what Biden actually accomplished and will continue to accomplish. He is not an entertainer which is all tRump is (and a poor one at that) but he is an excellent leader and statesman. If some people in the population refuse to do their homework and rely instead on the clickbait of the media, then yes, we are doomed. But if people actually take an objective look at who has brought what to the American public, the standard changes. I abhor reality TV because it is debasing of both those on the show and those who watch it. It is not reality but an edited version…we as a society MUST do better. When I apply logical thinking with those I know personally about their limited thinking patterns of beliefs, I find often they are open to reconsidering their beliefs and look at issues with more objectivity and will often follow up with their own research. So, again, I apologize for my snarkiness (I do have that habit) as I type fast and often hit send w/o reflection and there is no edit button on this site. I often reconsider my approach and go back, delete and state again in a more appropriate tone which I was considering but you beat me to it in calling me out.
You and I have the same goal and we both have the same admiration and appreciation for the most effective president in my lifetime. Ultimately, I know most of the heated talk is simply because the stakes are so high and we are all so afraid. I'm certainly not immune from my emotions getting the better of me. This past 9 years have been the most trying of my lifetime.
Again, thank you. I really do appreciate your apology and it is accepted.
People can be wrong in their beliefs and still act on them. We're all rare birds in that we care about politics and are informed, arguably too informed. The vast majority of eligible voters are not so engaged. If they're not engaged, they don't necessarily even know what Joe Biden has done for them or that he deserves any praise, let alone loyalty.
It doesn't matter whether they're wrong. Their ignorant vote counts just as much as our informed one does.
I totally respect your opinion, Ben and understand your pov. I strongly disagree with your take but I feel his supporters had no business accepting the debate in the first place. I mean really? Your putting another person in front of a frothing lunatic? What did they expect? What could possibly go wrong? Not to mention putting him right into the jaws of a media conglomerate who had no interest in a real debate. I appreciate your courage Ben. No way am I unsubscribing. I listen to you and Justin , who is a phenomenal voice, Tom Hartman, and The Professional Left.
I hear ya. Integrity is paramount. I say this: People love Joe Biden. They want to donate for Joe. (And Joe has a good team with him.) In two weeks you can ask folks “so what about that debate?” And they will say “..ah, what?”
I frankly do not understand why people cancel subscriptions because of an article they disagree with. But that’s neither here nor there…..
Before Thursday I did not know whether Biden would win in November. After Thursday I still don’t know whether Biden will win the election. What I also didn’t know and still don’t know is whether Whitmer, Newsom, Warnock, Klobuchar, Buttigieg, etc, etc,etc, could or would win. (I left Kamala off the list because the same “Joe Must Go” folks are also never-Kamalas, I guess they know she won’t win.)
You should absolutely write what feels right for you, but I disagree with your reasoning. You talked about concern to Biden’s health after prefacing that you aren’t a doctor. In that case perhaps you should not make that assessment. Doubly so after seeing how Biden was fine just an hour later at a Waffle House, and his rally in NC.
And just so you know WSJ opinion column is calling Biden to step aside instead of counting on deep state to save him. When you and your enemy both want the same thing to happen, perhaps it’s time to reassess if one of you perhaps made an error.
P.S. What a vivid way to appreciate the state Fox News is in -- how they are completely beholden to parrot the prejudices of an ignorant army of their own creation.
If anyone remembers, in 1984, Ronald Reagan stumbled in his first debate with Walter Mondale. Some pundits raised concerns about his age but there were no calls for him to drop out that I recall. In 2012, Barack Obama turned in a less than stellar debate in his first outing against Mitt Romney. The political commentariat went ballistic. The Chris’s (Cilizza, Hayes, and especially Matthews) freaked out. I guess it’s different for Republican presidents.
By the way, Reagan went on to be re-elected by an Electoral College landslide even with September unemployment at 7.3%, inflation at 4.3%, and the average FHA mortgage interest rate at 14.26%. Compared to today’s statistics, we’re in better shape. The collective bleating by most pundits should be taken with a large grain of salt.
Have you gone back and watched the first Reagan v Mondale debate? I just finished it. Reagan occasionally paused and mixed up a word or two, but was fully lucid and comprehensible. His arguments were coherent and supported by recall of facts and figures. There was no “We finally beat Medicare” moment, let alone multiple.
I have watched all the debates between Reagan and Mondale. Yes, Biden’s performance was far worse. However, my purpose for bringing up those debates was to show that although comparatively speaking, the expectations for Reagan were higher back then. He was known as “the Great Communicator” so the fact that he was off his game that night raised questions in some quarters. In fact, he even joked about it in the subsequent debate. Unless you’re a robot, no one has ever not flubbed even slightly at a public speaking event.
The term “cognitively impaired “ gets thrown around a lot by those with no background, training, or credentials in neuroscience. Ten years ago I was accused by a coworker of being cognitively impaired (as well as having diminished mental capacity). He stated as much simply as a means to force me out of my job so that he could take my position. My director accepted his assessment as gospel truth. Needless to say, HR took a very dim view of his conclusions since he was not an MD. Commentators need to tread carefully when using these term, especially if they are not practicing neurologists.
I am sorry you went through that. Thank you for sharing your story. It is infuriating what the press and pundits like Ben are doing. It almost feels like they want Trump to win. People making assessments without any credentials to say anything about President Biden's mental and physical state are disrespectful and unethical, IMHO.
You would think the people engaging in this unethical exercise against Biden are perfect and never had an off moment of mixing up words and drawing a blank.
Ok, then how would you describe whatever came out of Biden’s mouth the other day? It was disjointed and he came off confused. He failed to communicate and defend his record. He failed to adjudicate the case against Trump. It was weak.
It was a poor performance, nothing more, nothing less. Again, not being a neuroscientist or gerontologist, nor knowing anything of Biden’s medical history and not having performed the appropriate examination and testing, that’s all I can or any of the 99.9% of those who aren’t trained in the field can say. Additionally, I also can’t make any medical diagnosis of Trump either and neither can those who aren’t medically treating him.
That’s a great way of saying you don’t really understand the actual political outcome of this debacle, which is to say that Biden looked like shit and many voters will keep this information at hand when they decide to vote. And it will be used against him by the Trump campaign at every possible turn. And what of Biden’s gait and inability to walk with purpose and conviction. I’m deeply concerned for his health. That being said, I will vote for him if he’s the nominee, but I’m not the one we need to worry about. America a nation of abject idiocy.
I respect Joe Biden. I believe he's been highly successful; historically, even. He is a man of heart and character. Even though I don't agree with all of his actions and positions, I will gladly still support Joe Biden if he's the nominee come November. That said, what Joe Biden deserves has got nothing to do with this. What's fair, right, or what should be has nothing to do with this! Hillary "deserved" the nomination in 2016, and look where that got us. The irony is that, if we had not passed the torch to the next "deserved" candidate in 2016 and Joe ran then instead, we might not have even *had* a Trump presidency. The sickest twist of fate would be that we get a 2nd Trump term *because* Joe runs again.
Nothing is more important than defeating Donald Trump. If the most likely way that gets accomplished is via Joe Biden, then so be it. I will have no reservations about the choice in November. But if we don't take even a moment to assess whether, after a terrible performance that made Joe look older - it was supposed to do the exact opposite! - then are we being any better than the Republicans with their unflinching loyalty to a man and his ego?
It's because the stakes are so high that everyone's emotions are running so strong. But let's not turn on each other. We're all working towards the same ends; the defeat of Trump and MAGA. Even if we disagree about Biden's abilities at this point, it's not unreasonable to have concerns about Joe's capacity just as much as it's not unreasonable to feel he's been a great president who deserves four more years. That's what makes this so bad, though. This wasn't a blip. This was confirmation of so many people's worst fears (at least it was to them).
Let us continue to talk, to disagree - passionately even - but let's not forget we're all on the same side. And that side MUST be anti-Trump before it's pro-Biden, else we risk it all - the past near-decade of suffering, of strife, of despair - for nothing.
I paid for a subscription after you wrote this. I've enjoyed the free version and wanted to support you as I am convinced that unsubscribing isn't the way to disagree. (And still figuring out what I think--I don't think it's obvious.)
Thank you for clarifying your concerns about Joe Biden’s health. However, he doesn’t seem to be worried, and his staff and wife don’t seem to, either.
There is a bandwagon of voices that are calling for him to step down for entirely selfish reasons. Biden admits he has lost a step, but his steps are many compared to the average person his age. He has what it takes to continue turning this country around. Frankly, I have no worry if he steps down mid-term 2 as Harris is a capable leader and the administration is always solid with the best people. The mark of a true leader is knowing your strengths and weaknesses. I think he will be fine. I know plenty of people much older than him who are still sharp as a tack, too, but our personal anecdotes should never be fodder for making generalizations.
Ask yourself, did you feel this way before the debate as well, or are you making your judgement based on the debate alone?
I may disagree with you, but I won’t abandon you based on one metric like a 90 minute “debate” with a Gish galloping moron.
Your second Position paragraph is what you should have started with. He’s living his dream of saving Democracy. The last thing he needs is Dems turning his back on him. Research ‘bad first debates’ and ‘donation since debate’. “Democracy was a little dusty that night, but that doesn’t mean fascism tastes good!” Frángela.
I am sorry you lost readers, but you did the right thing by being honest about your thoughtful opinion. At age 76, I know what aging does to the brain, and it ain't pretty. However, I haven't the expert resources surrounding me to guide me when I'm feeling wobbly and tired. Joe has a great team, AND Kamala Harris, so I think he's got a next term covered.
Just wanted to mention that I think it was a mistake to have trump and Biden within earshot of each other. Trump aggressively, loudly and rapidly shot out as many lies as he could manage. Even with his mic off, Biden could hear him. Anybody would have wanted to respond to the insults, but it was already a lost cause. Trump wouldn't shut up. He wouldn't answer the questions. He was arrogant and rude. That was how he "won", not because Biden couldn't debate. Biden could have debated if he could have gotten a whole sentence in now and then.
Biden/Harris 2024 for the sake of America's democracy!
I'm still with you but I completely disagree with you. I don't know why we're panicking because of one bad performance. He got better as the debate went along and Trump got worse. Trump lied about everything and didn't answer any questions. Evidence is coming out now that cold medication may have been responsible for some aspects of Biden's performance. So please calm the f down. Everybody.
Exactly. It’s absolutely shameful
It’s another heads I win tails you lose bullshit.
Had he done great we wouldn’t be having these convos. He will
Go down as
The best president in modern history right after the worst. Never seen so many people Jump
Ship So fast. Far
As I can tell Biden gained voters not Lost
Them after that disgraceful
Display of lies
Dude, the guy cannot articulate a coherent thought. Its disgraceful. You are in denial and gaslighting us.
You have described Trump exactly! Good work.
Trump is quite possibly the most deplorable piece of shit on the planet. We should have someone who can take him down without us doubting them.
I'm stunned, saddened, and a bit aghast that you lost subscribers over a single post -- seeing that I thought that uncompromised spirited debate was the entire point of joining the Banter Extended Universe (your posts, the podcast, and the community discussions). I don't agree with everything you say, but I love hearing other views, challenging my own, being proven wrong, being proven right, learning new things, and having a trusted perspective from people way closer to the Beltway than I am. I say we rally to the cause -- I'll promote sharable links as best I can to see it the remaining subscribers can help turn the tide. And to everyone who jumped ship, you have a day to reconsider -- I know you can still see this!
Thanks so much my friend. Hugely appreciated :)
“I'm stunned, saddened, and a bit aghast that” Ben has become a shill for Trump by calling for Biden to step down.
No plan for what’s next. No recognition of the many consequences (party chaos, voter anger at Dems, etc etc), any one of which would hand the election to Trump. Just a “Biden should quit” followed by burying his head in the sand.
I’m more than stunned, saddened, and aghast. I’m disgusted by how easily Ben’s given up.
This 💯 agree!
I am really sorry to hear that so many subscribers decided to express their disagreement with your opinion/newsletter by unsubscribing. Although I disagree/d with you, I feel strongly that everyone should be able to express their honest, sincere opinion without fear of reprisal, especially financial reprisal. The Banter is a major source of political news and opinion for me, particularly since I feel that the NY Times, WaPo, and CNN have gone over to the corporate dark side.
But there are two things that your latest post brought up for me: One, I honestly don’t think, at this late date, that the Democrats can come up with a candidate who will beat Trump, as unfortunate and in some ways incomprehensible as that is for me. Biden is the incumbent, he has an amazing track record, and his deep experience, IMHO, is extremely valuable. And as sick as this makes me to say, I’m just not sure that anyone besides a straight white man can beat Trump in this election cycle. I’m feeling that this country is not ready to elect a woman, for one thing, which makes me angry but I fear it to be true. Maybe there is another white male candidate who could step in at this late date, but I’m skeptical. Not that I have the political insight and expertise that you have. And I’ve been reading that the funds raised for the Biden/Harris ticket are not transferable. I don’t know if that’s true, but that’s what I’ve read. And the stakes are just too high right now to gamble with a new candidate - again, IMHO.
Two, it is possible that Joe Biden is well aware that this might do him in and he’s willing to make that sacrifice. I believe that Obama told him that he “didn’t have to do this” – throw his hat in the ring in 2020 – and he went ahead anyway. If he thinks he could help keep this country from sliding into fascism, he might feel that it would be worth it. It might kill him anyway if he stepped aside and Trump won. The feeling that he might have been able to prevent this could really be devastating, I would think. If Biden wins but then he suffers a health crisis, I do think he chose Kamala Harris very carefully, knowing that he is elderly and his life expectancy is not long in any circumstance.
At any rate, you have my support, even when I don’t agree with you. And I hope some of your former subscribers might reconsider and resubscribe. The Banter is an important voice in these times and we need you guys.
I’ve absolutely no doubt that if the power that be spoke to Biden and said “You’re going to win the election, but the effort is going to kill you before you get inaugurated.” that Biden would make that sacrifice without hesitation.
Well, if I were in his place, I would.
As so many have over the history of this country.
On Omaha beach, on the march to Selma, as soldiers, as Freedom Riders, as suffragettes, and so much more.
It’s a shame if we let all those sacrifices come to nothing by failing to stand up and fight now that preserving the country has fallen to us.
I fervently agree.
So you are experiencing the impulsive response of those who don’t like your “performance”. Perhaps consider that and take time to reflect on your own reaction due to a 90 minute poor performance (which we all have experienced sometime in our lives) and the impulse to immediately say Biden should step down. With that said, I don’t think anyone should change their stance based solely on whatever the readers want, you are certainly entitled to your opinion and if you feel they have a substantial base to them, by all means stick with it. But I hope you take some time to really consider if you are looking a the full picture or just having a knee jerk response because he did so poorly. For me, I saw that poor performance (and was saddened by it) but in light of all he has accomplished and is able to do, I see him as a powerful (if not dynamic) leader. I want someone who gets the job done, they don’t have to entertain me. BTW age may be a concern, but JFK was in his 40’s when he was shot and killed, FDR had served four terms when he died: and if anyone had known he was in a wheelchair during the campaign he wouldn’t have won and look at all he accomplished. Don’t count people out just because of a number because unless you have a “magic string” to tell you how long someone has to live, I will judge on ability not age which would actually be ageism in the working world.
And no, I won’t stop following you just because I don’t agree with you. But again, isn’t that what you were advocating for in your original piece?
That’s exactly what he was advocating for. good point. People Should have sat on their hands Friday morning because by afternoon Biden had more support Then ever
I understand your point re: JFK in that anything can happen, but with all due respect, a young president being assassinated - something that few, if any, could reasonably predict would've happened - is not at all comparable to an octogenarian having the appearance of mental decline, something people have been talking about since Biden first started running. Nobody said, "See, I told you JFK would get shot in the head riding through Dallas." But whether they're right by chance, knowledge, or experience, Biden's debate performance, rightly or wrongly, confirmed prior concerns about his mental fitness that people have had for some time. Not all people, but certainly many.
No, it didn’t confirm anything other than he (like anyone else) can have a bad night for any number of reasons (illness, seasonal allergies, medication that was taken to deal with either of those, just plain being exhausted b/c you’re the president and not getting enough sleep)…none of which are age.
Also - and again I sincerely mean this with respect as you're not my enemy, you're my ally, and I have no ill will towards you - but you state that his performance didn't confirm anything in the minds of others with a certainty that just isn't realistic. The very fact that people are having these conversations means some people are concerned. It's not reasonable to think his performance didn't confirm *some* people's prior assumptions about his age and mental acuity because they've told us it did. Many times now. Now whether it did for enough people to make a difference remains to be seen. And perhaps this too shall pass. But it certainly did happen. There's nothing to be gained from pretending otherwise.
First of all…see apology above 🙂. Now onward…I don’t pretend it doesn’t happen, rather I call attention to falseness of such beliefs and thinking. It was actually my job for decades and while one on one, I am often able to help those with limited thinking patterns learn to reality check themselves, I forget that on the broader conversation, it is more difficult. Our public is too dependent on false representations and fail to do their due diligence. Perception does not equal reality. Perception skews ones sense of reality. To say the former is kind of like endorsing alternative facts. There is no such thing as alternative facts, there are facts which can be substantiated with data and there’s beliefs (opinions) that may or may not be substantiated on facts or logical fallacies.
False equivalency and fallacy of logic…but, nice try
And this "but, nice try" stuff... the snark does nothing constructive. I am trying to talk to you as a mature adult ally wanting to save our beloved nation. I'm having an honest conversation with you. The instinct to snap back in such ways is poison to our collective good. It does not make more allies, which is what our goal should be. I wish you the best, Susan.
You’re right, it did come across as snarky and for that I apologize. I still stand behind fighting against the false narrative of applying a false equivalency to a one night poor performance (which that is what the debate is…a performance) with what Biden actually accomplished and will continue to accomplish. He is not an entertainer which is all tRump is (and a poor one at that) but he is an excellent leader and statesman. If some people in the population refuse to do their homework and rely instead on the clickbait of the media, then yes, we are doomed. But if people actually take an objective look at who has brought what to the American public, the standard changes. I abhor reality TV because it is debasing of both those on the show and those who watch it. It is not reality but an edited version…we as a society MUST do better. When I apply logical thinking with those I know personally about their limited thinking patterns of beliefs, I find often they are open to reconsidering their beliefs and look at issues with more objectivity and will often follow up with their own research. So, again, I apologize for my snarkiness (I do have that habit) as I type fast and often hit send w/o reflection and there is no edit button on this site. I often reconsider my approach and go back, delete and state again in a more appropriate tone which I was considering but you beat me to it in calling me out.
Thank you, Susan.
You and I have the same goal and we both have the same admiration and appreciation for the most effective president in my lifetime. Ultimately, I know most of the heated talk is simply because the stakes are so high and we are all so afraid. I'm certainly not immune from my emotions getting the better of me. This past 9 years have been the most trying of my lifetime.
Again, thank you. I really do appreciate your apology and it is accepted.
Perception = reality.
People can be wrong in their beliefs and still act on them. We're all rare birds in that we care about politics and are informed, arguably too informed. The vast majority of eligible voters are not so engaged. If they're not engaged, they don't necessarily even know what Joe Biden has done for them or that he deserves any praise, let alone loyalty.
It doesn't matter whether they're wrong. Their ignorant vote counts just as much as our informed one does.
I totally respect your opinion, Ben and understand your pov. I strongly disagree with your take but I feel his supporters had no business accepting the debate in the first place. I mean really? Your putting another person in front of a frothing lunatic? What did they expect? What could possibly go wrong? Not to mention putting him right into the jaws of a media conglomerate who had no interest in a real debate. I appreciate your courage Ben. No way am I unsubscribing. I listen to you and Justin , who is a phenomenal voice, Tom Hartman, and The Professional Left.
I hear ya. Integrity is paramount. I say this: People love Joe Biden. They want to donate for Joe. (And Joe has a good team with him.) In two weeks you can ask folks “so what about that debate?” And they will say “..ah, what?”
Meanwhile, back on Planet Earth . . .
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2024/us/elections/polls-president.html
I frankly do not understand why people cancel subscriptions because of an article they disagree with. But that’s neither here nor there…..
Before Thursday I did not know whether Biden would win in November. After Thursday I still don’t know whether Biden will win the election. What I also didn’t know and still don’t know is whether Whitmer, Newsom, Warnock, Klobuchar, Buttigieg, etc, etc,etc, could or would win. (I left Kamala off the list because the same “Joe Must Go” folks are also never-Kamalas, I guess they know she won’t win.)
You should absolutely write what feels right for you, but I disagree with your reasoning. You talked about concern to Biden’s health after prefacing that you aren’t a doctor. In that case perhaps you should not make that assessment. Doubly so after seeing how Biden was fine just an hour later at a Waffle House, and his rally in NC.
And just so you know WSJ opinion column is calling Biden to step aside instead of counting on deep state to save him. When you and your enemy both want the same thing to happen, perhaps it’s time to reassess if one of you perhaps made an error.
He could have simply sucked it up Friday am like all of us and wrote a lengthy piece on why the liar
Fraud and felon should
Pull Out of the race and why the GOP
Need to say so.
You say: “He could have simply sucked it up Friday am like all of us.” What, exactly are we all sucking up here?
I'm a paid subscriber who's sticking with you, Ben.
Thank you Stephen!
P.S. What a vivid way to appreciate the state Fox News is in -- how they are completely beholden to parrot the prejudices of an ignorant army of their own creation.
If anyone remembers, in 1984, Ronald Reagan stumbled in his first debate with Walter Mondale. Some pundits raised concerns about his age but there were no calls for him to drop out that I recall. In 2012, Barack Obama turned in a less than stellar debate in his first outing against Mitt Romney. The political commentariat went ballistic. The Chris’s (Cilizza, Hayes, and especially Matthews) freaked out. I guess it’s different for Republican presidents.
By the way, Reagan went on to be re-elected by an Electoral College landslide even with September unemployment at 7.3%, inflation at 4.3%, and the average FHA mortgage interest rate at 14.26%. Compared to today’s statistics, we’re in better shape. The collective bleating by most pundits should be taken with a large grain of salt.
Notably, Chris Matthews was on Bill Maher Friday, and did not think Biden should step down. And regarding Reagan — and Trump — IOKIYAR, right? 🤔😉😊
Have you gone back and watched the first Reagan v Mondale debate? I just finished it. Reagan occasionally paused and mixed up a word or two, but was fully lucid and comprehensible. His arguments were coherent and supported by recall of facts and figures. There was no “We finally beat Medicare” moment, let alone multiple.
I have watched all the debates between Reagan and Mondale. Yes, Biden’s performance was far worse. However, my purpose for bringing up those debates was to show that although comparatively speaking, the expectations for Reagan were higher back then. He was known as “the Great Communicator” so the fact that he was off his game that night raised questions in some quarters. In fact, he even joked about it in the subsequent debate. Unless you’re a robot, no one has ever not flubbed even slightly at a public speaking event.
There’s having a bad debate and then there’s Biden looking completely cognitively impaired. They aren’t the same thing.
The term “cognitively impaired “ gets thrown around a lot by those with no background, training, or credentials in neuroscience. Ten years ago I was accused by a coworker of being cognitively impaired (as well as having diminished mental capacity). He stated as much simply as a means to force me out of my job so that he could take my position. My director accepted his assessment as gospel truth. Needless to say, HR took a very dim view of his conclusions since he was not an MD. Commentators need to tread carefully when using these term, especially if they are not practicing neurologists.
I am sorry you went through that. Thank you for sharing your story. It is infuriating what the press and pundits like Ben are doing. It almost feels like they want Trump to win. People making assessments without any credentials to say anything about President Biden's mental and physical state are disrespectful and unethical, IMHO.
You would think the people engaging in this unethical exercise against Biden are perfect and never had an off moment of mixing up words and drawing a blank.
Go Joe!
Ok, then how would you describe whatever came out of Biden’s mouth the other day? It was disjointed and he came off confused. He failed to communicate and defend his record. He failed to adjudicate the case against Trump. It was weak.
It was a poor performance, nothing more, nothing less. Again, not being a neuroscientist or gerontologist, nor knowing anything of Biden’s medical history and not having performed the appropriate examination and testing, that’s all I can or any of the 99.9% of those who aren’t trained in the field can say. Additionally, I also can’t make any medical diagnosis of Trump either and neither can those who aren’t medically treating him.
That’s a great way of saying you don’t really understand the actual political outcome of this debacle, which is to say that Biden looked like shit and many voters will keep this information at hand when they decide to vote. And it will be used against him by the Trump campaign at every possible turn. And what of Biden’s gait and inability to walk with purpose and conviction. I’m deeply concerned for his health. That being said, I will vote for him if he’s the nominee, but I’m not the one we need to worry about. America a nation of abject idiocy.
I respect Joe Biden. I believe he's been highly successful; historically, even. He is a man of heart and character. Even though I don't agree with all of his actions and positions, I will gladly still support Joe Biden if he's the nominee come November. That said, what Joe Biden deserves has got nothing to do with this. What's fair, right, or what should be has nothing to do with this! Hillary "deserved" the nomination in 2016, and look where that got us. The irony is that, if we had not passed the torch to the next "deserved" candidate in 2016 and Joe ran then instead, we might not have even *had* a Trump presidency. The sickest twist of fate would be that we get a 2nd Trump term *because* Joe runs again.
Nothing is more important than defeating Donald Trump. If the most likely way that gets accomplished is via Joe Biden, then so be it. I will have no reservations about the choice in November. But if we don't take even a moment to assess whether, after a terrible performance that made Joe look older - it was supposed to do the exact opposite! - then are we being any better than the Republicans with their unflinching loyalty to a man and his ego?
It's because the stakes are so high that everyone's emotions are running so strong. But let's not turn on each other. We're all working towards the same ends; the defeat of Trump and MAGA. Even if we disagree about Biden's abilities at this point, it's not unreasonable to have concerns about Joe's capacity just as much as it's not unreasonable to feel he's been a great president who deserves four more years. That's what makes this so bad, though. This wasn't a blip. This was confirmation of so many people's worst fears (at least it was to them).
Let us continue to talk, to disagree - passionately even - but let's not forget we're all on the same side. And that side MUST be anti-Trump before it's pro-Biden, else we risk it all - the past near-decade of suffering, of strife, of despair - for nothing.
I paid for a subscription after you wrote this. I've enjoyed the free version and wanted to support you as I am convinced that unsubscribing isn't the way to disagree. (And still figuring out what I think--I don't think it's obvious.)
Thank you Ronni!
Thank you for clarifying your concerns about Joe Biden’s health. However, he doesn’t seem to be worried, and his staff and wife don’t seem to, either.
There is a bandwagon of voices that are calling for him to step down for entirely selfish reasons. Biden admits he has lost a step, but his steps are many compared to the average person his age. He has what it takes to continue turning this country around. Frankly, I have no worry if he steps down mid-term 2 as Harris is a capable leader and the administration is always solid with the best people. The mark of a true leader is knowing your strengths and weaknesses. I think he will be fine. I know plenty of people much older than him who are still sharp as a tack, too, but our personal anecdotes should never be fodder for making generalizations.
Ask yourself, did you feel this way before the debate as well, or are you making your judgement based on the debate alone?
I may disagree with you, but I won’t abandon you based on one metric like a 90 minute “debate” with a Gish galloping moron.
Thank you Lisa!
Your second Position paragraph is what you should have started with. He’s living his dream of saving Democracy. The last thing he needs is Dems turning his back on him. Research ‘bad first debates’ and ‘donation since debate’. “Democracy was a little dusty that night, but that doesn’t mean fascism tastes good!” Frángela.
Exactly.
I am sorry you lost readers, but you did the right thing by being honest about your thoughtful opinion. At age 76, I know what aging does to the brain, and it ain't pretty. However, I haven't the expert resources surrounding me to guide me when I'm feeling wobbly and tired. Joe has a great team, AND Kamala Harris, so I think he's got a next term covered.
Just wanted to mention that I think it was a mistake to have trump and Biden within earshot of each other. Trump aggressively, loudly and rapidly shot out as many lies as he could manage. Even with his mic off, Biden could hear him. Anybody would have wanted to respond to the insults, but it was already a lost cause. Trump wouldn't shut up. He wouldn't answer the questions. He was arrogant and rude. That was how he "won", not because Biden couldn't debate. Biden could have debated if he could have gotten a whole sentence in now and then.
Biden/Harris 2024 for the sake of America's democracy!