This is insightful. It reminds me why I gave up talking to or knowing as an adult much of my biological family..
"Murray: But if you throw a lot of shit out there, there’s some point at which “I’m just raising questions” is not a valid thing. You’re not raising questions. You’re not asking questions. You’re telling people something".
- SO FUCKING TRUE, MURRAY! These assholes like Rogan and his mouth breathing knucklehead friends who pretend to know stuffs.
Like people in my family at the dinner table...pretend discourse.
They don't care what is true.
They don't fact check.
They will talk until you give up, and then concede victory over you personally.
Can we do it back? Like hypnotize them into mass suicide? Asking for a friend.
I thought this was an excellent summary of the mindset of podcasters like Rogan. “It’s that they wield enormous influence while refusing to accept responsibilities that come with it. They sidestep accountability by hiding behind the “just asking questions” defense while promoting fringe views that shape how millions of people see the world.”
A very good summary of the difference between arguing, from a background of contradictory facts (Murray) for a controversial position, and what passes for "argument" with Rogan and others - which is no longer required to be fact-based at all. I strongly disagree with Murray's opinions about Muslim communities in Europe, for example, but he doesn't lie by omission, distort contrary evidence, or pretend to "just ask questions".
What Rogan is enabling is anti-thought, just a "vibe" for his audience to absorb. The same thought-deadening approach as the progressive left take to their issues, but serving a different machine.
In Joe Stalin's Russia, of course. And other fun dictatorships.
Now the Bloated Yam plans to send AMERICAN CITIZENS to prisons in El Salvador. They will have no ability to be freed by appeal, reversed conviction, or likely even parole.
El Salvador is offering us the use of their nation to become the Bloated Yam's personal Gulag....
Only technically…it was in “General Government,” the chunk of occupied Poland that was NOT made part of the Reich, unlike West Prussia and Silesia.
Run by Hans Frank almost as his personal fiefdom out of Krakow’s Wawel Castle, his SS men butchered 3 million Jews and 3 million Poles. Meanwhile, his adulterous wife drove hard bargains in Polish jewelry and clothing stores to purchase luxury goods. She ultimately went back to Berlin and her boyfriend.
The Americans bagged Hans along with his voluminous diaries, which described his murderous career. They were used against him at the trial.
He tried to kill himself, but failed. Instead he converted to Catholicism, said the trial was “God-given,” and in his final statement, said, “A thousand years shall pass, and this guilt of Germany shall not be erased!”
"It’s that they wield enormous influence while refusing to accept responsibilities that come with it."
These guys aren't stupid. They know exactly what they're doing. And they're making tons of money off the attention and hiding behind the "what're ya gonna do, censor me?" line.
"Rogan: Yeah but Ian Carroll, I didn’t bring him on for that purpose. I brought him on because I wanted to find out, like, “how does one get involved in the whole conspiracy theory business?” Because his whole thing is just conspiracies."
-----
You're joking, right Joe? "How does one get involved in the whole conspiracy business"? Looking for tips or pointers?
Why don't you ask yourself how "one" comes to believe that there was some kind of verified evidence that Ray Epps was an FBI plant and that the FBI had a hand in triggering J6? How many conspiracy theories or otherwise misinformed, ignorant ideas must "one" have to subscribe to in order to have conducted that joke of an interview that you did with Trump, where you let him repeat lie upon lie unchallenged?
I'll tell you how someone "gets into the whole conspiracy theory business". It likely starts by listening to an actual conspiracy theorist being given the implicit imprimatur of someone with mainstream credibility, which sadly these days means some dope with a podcast who fancies himself sufficiently well informed to go endorsing someone for President.
This is another problem I have with so-called libertarianism. It's often—not always but often enough—a convenient label the ignorant person can apply to themselves—usually those who lead relatively privileged lives without particularly needing anyone's help, and are relatively insulated from most material changes to the status quo—because it's easy to say that you want your rights.
I know you can say that many self-described liberals and conservatives are ignorant of a great many things as well. But at least calling yourself liberal / progressive vs. conservative aligns you with a history of left vs. right or Democrat vs. Republican governance, that eventually compels you—if you want to be taken seriously—to engage with broader questions beyond the relatively accessible cultural issues that most Americans have the luxury of obsessing over.
The libertarian is like the true socialist in that, in this aspect of political discourse, he can simply daydream about a fantasy world which has never and probably will never exist in any way remotely consistent with a healthy free society. Nothing to attest to or account for, no record to uphold or defend.
And in the meantime, libertarianism has served as the American right's handmaiden, luring generally broad-minded people into an alliance with Christian fascists and power-hungry oligarchs. They have whitewashed the agendas of those whose support of small government ended the moment they found a puppet who would allow them access to the levers of federal control.
How much longer is targeted pig-ignorance going to masquerade as free speech? Stupidity as civic engagement? Credulous cynicism as skeptical inquiry?
When are this country's men going to finally be embarrassed by how they've discredited themselves and this country before the eyes of the world?
Joe Rogan makes money from not understanding the problem with promoting conspiracists who don’t know what they’re talking about. He won’t get it until everyone stops listening to his bloated fact free blargarble.
I have been making the same point and experiencing similar frustration with how ppl just cannot or will not understand Murray’s point, which is that not everyone who CAN speak should do so, and perhaps ppl who know very little about something should not wax poetic to millions of ppl. Dave fans are very obsessed and very triggered, harassing Murray everywhere. He struck a nerve, but almost no one gets what he was trying to say.
Douglas Murray, my hero. Thank you for explaining the reason for why Gaza is leveled, (munitions and tunnels in every second or third home) sadly not explained or reported on frequently. Your point about experts and why it’s important to evenly yolk an argument with such experts instead of platforming twats that have enough knowledge to be dangerous but not enough courage or common sense to shut the fuck up or become more knowledgeable was not lost on me. It was not lost on people who need to understand where they position them selves and why. Your point unfortunately was completely lost on the two muppets Joe and Dave who need to “have an opinion” “free speech” and a large bank account to capitalize of the back of marginalized uniformed, racially biased sheep. Your measured responses and class in the face of Dave Smith’s overly excitable verbal diarrhea was gratifying to say the least. If you’re ever interested in switching to the netball team I’m here. Eternally a fan and student.
It would (hav) be(en) sufficient to state that (Self-)Hate against Israel/ Zionists/ Jews doesn´t need any "reason" or "incitement" as well as Russian hate against Ukraine doesn´t.
Israel can never do right for the masses of Arabs/Muslims who are instructed by their governments to hate all Jewish, as well as Ukraine can never do right for Russians who are instructed to hate Ukranians and their strive for self-determination for centuries.
The current problem is that the "free Western World" has a dangerous idiot as Trump who doesn´t know the slightest thing about Ukraine nor the so-called "Middle East region" but nevertheless spits out "truths" about it from his stinking mouth.
The only thing that can be agreed upon is that hopefully the third attempt of assassinating the idiot would be successful, that´s all I can say. All efforts on this. As long as this dangerous idiot and his Vance a.o.-Pussies are in power, there can only be resistance.
Please try to get the issues straight about Garcia. The charges against Garcia were not admitted to be false! Two judges confirmed the original accusation that he was part of the Salvadorian criminal gang, based on the belief of the local police who were told by a trusted informant. Anti-Trump news stories claim that the original informant should not be trusted because allegedly his accusations can be discredited. Don't know whether he is or was, but a later hearing blocked deporting him to El Salvador because of claims it would put him in danger. This hearing, however did not grant him amnesty to stay here and at that point, and since then he could have been legally deported to any other country. The mistake was administrative in that they apparently ignored a judge who put him in a category that would have blocked deportation to El Salvador, but not elsewhere. If he never was a gang member, and has been a hard working illegal immigrant with a family, it is very unfortunate but he still was here illegally. Portraying the administration as admitting the charges were "false" and not willing to correct it makes them look completely arbitrary and tyrannical, but then it is the New York Times. You can do better than that. You should spend a little time getting the facts straight or is anything the Trump administration automatically idiotic? There certainly is a lot to criticize but this is hardly an example that justifies your extreme position. Or are you entering into Trump derangement syndrome? When you too easily become a propagandist the net effect is that you will be ignored when your criticism is accurate.
This is insightful. It reminds me why I gave up talking to or knowing as an adult much of my biological family..
"Murray: But if you throw a lot of shit out there, there’s some point at which “I’m just raising questions” is not a valid thing. You’re not raising questions. You’re not asking questions. You’re telling people something".
- SO FUCKING TRUE, MURRAY! These assholes like Rogan and his mouth breathing knucklehead friends who pretend to know stuffs.
Like people in my family at the dinner table...pretend discourse.
They don't care what is true.
They don't fact check.
They will talk until you give up, and then concede victory over you personally.
Can we do it back? Like hypnotize them into mass suicide? Asking for a friend.
Love your substack.
S
"
I thought this was an excellent summary of the mindset of podcasters like Rogan. “It’s that they wield enormous influence while refusing to accept responsibilities that come with it. They sidestep accountability by hiding behind the “just asking questions” defense while promoting fringe views that shape how millions of people see the world.”
A very good summary of the difference between arguing, from a background of contradictory facts (Murray) for a controversial position, and what passes for "argument" with Rogan and others - which is no longer required to be fact-based at all. I strongly disagree with Murray's opinions about Muslim communities in Europe, for example, but he doesn't lie by omission, distort contrary evidence, or pretend to "just ask questions".
What Rogan is enabling is anti-thought, just a "vibe" for his audience to absorb. The same thought-deadening approach as the progressive left take to their issues, but serving a different machine.
Where have we seen this before?
In Joe Stalin's Russia, of course. And other fun dictatorships.
Now the Bloated Yam plans to send AMERICAN CITIZENS to prisons in El Salvador. They will have no ability to be freed by appeal, reversed conviction, or likely even parole.
El Salvador is offering us the use of their nation to become the Bloated Yam's personal Gulag....
Auschwitz wasn't in Nazi Germany either.
Only technically…it was in “General Government,” the chunk of occupied Poland that was NOT made part of the Reich, unlike West Prussia and Silesia.
Run by Hans Frank almost as his personal fiefdom out of Krakow’s Wawel Castle, his SS men butchered 3 million Jews and 3 million Poles. Meanwhile, his adulterous wife drove hard bargains in Polish jewelry and clothing stores to purchase luxury goods. She ultimately went back to Berlin and her boyfriend.
The Americans bagged Hans along with his voluminous diaries, which described his murderous career. They were used against him at the trial.
He tried to kill himself, but failed. Instead he converted to Catholicism, said the trial was “God-given,” and in his final statement, said, “A thousand years shall pass, and this guilt of Germany shall not be erased!”
His children hated him for his evil career.
"It’s that they wield enormous influence while refusing to accept responsibilities that come with it."
These guys aren't stupid. They know exactly what they're doing. And they're making tons of money off the attention and hiding behind the "what're ya gonna do, censor me?" line.
Charlatans.
-----
"Rogan: Yeah but Ian Carroll, I didn’t bring him on for that purpose. I brought him on because I wanted to find out, like, “how does one get involved in the whole conspiracy theory business?” Because his whole thing is just conspiracies."
-----
You're joking, right Joe? "How does one get involved in the whole conspiracy business"? Looking for tips or pointers?
Why don't you ask yourself how "one" comes to believe that there was some kind of verified evidence that Ray Epps was an FBI plant and that the FBI had a hand in triggering J6? How many conspiracy theories or otherwise misinformed, ignorant ideas must "one" have to subscribe to in order to have conducted that joke of an interview that you did with Trump, where you let him repeat lie upon lie unchallenged?
I'll tell you how someone "gets into the whole conspiracy theory business". It likely starts by listening to an actual conspiracy theorist being given the implicit imprimatur of someone with mainstream credibility, which sadly these days means some dope with a podcast who fancies himself sufficiently well informed to go endorsing someone for President.
This is another problem I have with so-called libertarianism. It's often—not always but often enough—a convenient label the ignorant person can apply to themselves—usually those who lead relatively privileged lives without particularly needing anyone's help, and are relatively insulated from most material changes to the status quo—because it's easy to say that you want your rights.
I know you can say that many self-described liberals and conservatives are ignorant of a great many things as well. But at least calling yourself liberal / progressive vs. conservative aligns you with a history of left vs. right or Democrat vs. Republican governance, that eventually compels you—if you want to be taken seriously—to engage with broader questions beyond the relatively accessible cultural issues that most Americans have the luxury of obsessing over.
The libertarian is like the true socialist in that, in this aspect of political discourse, he can simply daydream about a fantasy world which has never and probably will never exist in any way remotely consistent with a healthy free society. Nothing to attest to or account for, no record to uphold or defend.
And in the meantime, libertarianism has served as the American right's handmaiden, luring generally broad-minded people into an alliance with Christian fascists and power-hungry oligarchs. They have whitewashed the agendas of those whose support of small government ended the moment they found a puppet who would allow them access to the levers of federal control.
How much longer is targeted pig-ignorance going to masquerade as free speech? Stupidity as civic engagement? Credulous cynicism as skeptical inquiry?
When are this country's men going to finally be embarrassed by how they've discredited themselves and this country before the eyes of the world?
Joe Rogan makes money from not understanding the problem with promoting conspiracists who don’t know what they’re talking about. He won’t get it until everyone stops listening to his bloated fact free blargarble.
I have been making the same point and experiencing similar frustration with how ppl just cannot or will not understand Murray’s point, which is that not everyone who CAN speak should do so, and perhaps ppl who know very little about something should not wax poetic to millions of ppl. Dave fans are very obsessed and very triggered, harassing Murray everywhere. He struck a nerve, but almost no one gets what he was trying to say.
Agreed. I'm so tired of the "I'm entitled to my opinion!" crowd. No asshole, you're entitled to your *INFORMED* opinion.
“You have an opinion; it’s wrong.” Pretty much sums up the problem.
Douglas Murray, my hero. Thank you for explaining the reason for why Gaza is leveled, (munitions and tunnels in every second or third home) sadly not explained or reported on frequently. Your point about experts and why it’s important to evenly yolk an argument with such experts instead of platforming twats that have enough knowledge to be dangerous but not enough courage or common sense to shut the fuck up or become more knowledgeable was not lost on me. It was not lost on people who need to understand where they position them selves and why. Your point unfortunately was completely lost on the two muppets Joe and Dave who need to “have an opinion” “free speech” and a large bank account to capitalize of the back of marginalized uniformed, racially biased sheep. Your measured responses and class in the face of Dave Smith’s overly excitable verbal diarrhea was gratifying to say the least. If you’re ever interested in switching to the netball team I’m here. Eternally a fan and student.
It would (hav) be(en) sufficient to state that (Self-)Hate against Israel/ Zionists/ Jews doesn´t need any "reason" or "incitement" as well as Russian hate against Ukraine doesn´t.
Israel can never do right for the masses of Arabs/Muslims who are instructed by their governments to hate all Jewish, as well as Ukraine can never do right for Russians who are instructed to hate Ukranians and their strive for self-determination for centuries.
The current problem is that the "free Western World" has a dangerous idiot as Trump who doesn´t know the slightest thing about Ukraine nor the so-called "Middle East region" but nevertheless spits out "truths" about it from his stinking mouth.
The only thing that can be agreed upon is that hopefully the third attempt of assassinating the idiot would be successful, that´s all I can say. All efforts on this. As long as this dangerous idiot and his Vance a.o.-Pussies are in power, there can only be resistance.
Please try to get the issues straight about Garcia. The charges against Garcia were not admitted to be false! Two judges confirmed the original accusation that he was part of the Salvadorian criminal gang, based on the belief of the local police who were told by a trusted informant. Anti-Trump news stories claim that the original informant should not be trusted because allegedly his accusations can be discredited. Don't know whether he is or was, but a later hearing blocked deporting him to El Salvador because of claims it would put him in danger. This hearing, however did not grant him amnesty to stay here and at that point, and since then he could have been legally deported to any other country. The mistake was administrative in that they apparently ignored a judge who put him in a category that would have blocked deportation to El Salvador, but not elsewhere. If he never was a gang member, and has been a hard working illegal immigrant with a family, it is very unfortunate but he still was here illegally. Portraying the administration as admitting the charges were "false" and not willing to correct it makes them look completely arbitrary and tyrannical, but then it is the New York Times. You can do better than that. You should spend a little time getting the facts straight or is anything the Trump administration automatically idiotic? There certainly is a lot to criticize but this is hardly an example that justifies your extreme position. Or are you entering into Trump derangement syndrome? When you too easily become a propagandist the net effect is that you will be ignored when your criticism is accurate.