“One protestor has already killed a 69-year-old Jewish man because they didn’t like what he was saying. Are you as angry about that as you are about the little boy killed because he was Palestinian?”
Interestingly, in the two news articles you link to, the one regarding the Jewish man says he “died“ and the one regarding the Palestinian boy says he was “killed“.
So the Palestinian was a victim of violence while the Jew just passed away?
I would think because it's clear the boy was stabbed with the intent to kill whereas the older man was hit not necessarily with murder in mind. It's still a homicide fueled by hate, of course, but i get the semantic difference.
That may be the reason for the difference. Although I do wonder if that much thought goes into the crafting of headlines, given how little often seems to go into the body of the articles.
I do note how often the media reports that people “lost their lives“ rather than “were killed” when there’s a mass killing. As if their lives were something they carelessly misplaced rather than a something someone else violently took from them. Makes me sensitive to how a murder is described.
I think that there is a difference with the Palestinian boy murdered and the Jewish man was hit with the megaphone (assaulted) but probably without intent to kill. That being said the way this was written about diminished Jewish lives.
1. Was the Palestinian kid murdered by someone Jewish?
2. The person attacked was definitely Jewish, and the attacker was definitely pro Palestinian. Not sure what you're driving at - that he didn't die because he was bashed on the head by a Hamas loving asshole?
3. The woman backing up her SUV into what she thought was a Jewish school was definitely Arab American.
4. The French Jewish woman stabbed in Lyon by a pro Hamas activist is indisputable.
5. The attacks on Jewish college students by pro Hamas activists are indisputable.
Hi, Bee, I think you may be misunderstanding what Christopher was getting at. Irrespective of who the attacker was, the verb used for the attack on each differed based on the ethnicity of the victim. The Palestinian kid was “killed“ — an active verb; the Jewish guy just “died” — a much more passive verb, as if it were somehow less egregious. I believe Christopher was asserting that this distinction was evidence of a double standard, and an anti-Semitic presumption. 🤔😉😊
Maybe, but I doubt it. I’ve exchanged words with our good man Christopher before. Methinks it was to throw doubt on a pro Hamas protestor murdering a Jewish person who dared wave an Israeli flag.
Yup, must be some other Christopher Foxx since I typically read only half a dozen Substacks, and comment on maybe half of those. But don't let that stop you from continuing to read into what I write what you want to see rather than what I actually write.
Yes, that was exactly my point. The different connotations of the words was, as I said, “interesting” in what one might infer from it.
Thank you for your reading comprehension. I wish the same could be said for Art Bee, but clearly they have an agenda that blinds them to what others actually write.
Thank you, a considered and balanced piece on an immensely complicated subject. I have many Palestinian friends and I have many Jewish friends, all of whom, yes all of whom, I guess I'm just lucky with my friends, agree that the only thing that will ever come of violence is more violence. That said, the 'leadership' on both / all sides is comprised of old men who don't seem to command universal, or even majority, support among their communities. We can but hope that eventually younger, wiser, calmer heads will prevail.
Justin, thank you for this essay that so clearly and eloquently explains the double standard that has been adopted by some liberals with regard to Jews. Those who were so quick to denounce anti-Muslim hatred after 9/11 seem to have no problem attacking and hating people who have no control over the actions of a government that is thousands of miles away. The absurdity of it is profoundly difficult to grasp. Do any of these people remember the hundreds of thousands of Israelis who protested in the streets for months against the Netanyahu government? It is disheartening that much of this is being carried out by younger people who consider themselves progressives. Chasing innocent Jewish students into a room and threatening them is the furthest thing from progressive that I can imagine. We all expected that acts of antisemitism would break out once Netanyahu‘s government began their assaults on Gaza. But what we’ve been witnessing over the past month is absolutely beyond the pale.
Well written, Justin. I'd like to suggest a further step - anyone celebrating or excusing a massacre of Israeli civilians can give up the term "peace activist", "pro peace" and "human rights activist" (looking at members of Amnesty International and others after their posts). What they are is pro Hamas, and for the murder of civilians, which is a war crime. Palestinian death squads murdered Israeli Jews, Israeli Arabs, Palestinians working in Israel, Thai and Nepalese farm workers, foreigners visiting an EDM festival. It was senseless, it had zero to do with peace, and less than zero to do with human rights. The far Left has shown itself as ghoulish and as antisemitic as the far Right.
This is the most realistic and fair writing I’ve come across since Oct 7. The ignorance and intolerance of younger generations is astounding especially those on college campuses. You’d think that by the time they make it there they’d be more informed.
The way Jimmy Carter mediated peace between Israel and Egypt, left in the dust of history books in its most simplistic form, not that other US presidents haven’t tried.
The bottom line is that even when this is over their will still be pockets of retaliation, bombings, indiscriminate killing, massacres in the region that I’ve seen since a little girl watching the CBS News with Walter Cronkite and remember my mother saying this will probably never end and seems she was right. I never heard either parent speak badly of either side or sides thank goodness. I grew up in a small rural town on the border of North and South Carolina, and I never knew that anyone was prejudiced against Jews until I was in my late teens and the mini series “The Holocaust” came out. After that my mother explained it to me. This was in the late 70’s. There was one older jewish couple in town, Mr Shuller, he owned a furniture store and walking through town I’d that he and other proprietors would be sitting outside their stores talking and smoking their cigars or cigarettes. He was just another store owner to me and this was in a town where all last names were of Scot Irish except Mr. Shuller and Mr. Pigolosky who owned a law office. No one ever referred to either in a negative way. After the Holocaust tv series I started reading as many books as I could find on it and in WWII.
I still don’t get the hate and unaceptance. I never will.
I don’t want either side to win, I just want it to stop
None of us chose who we actually are or where we were born, and it is up to each one of us to recognize that is the situation with every other human, each one trying very hard to survive in the place they found themselves ! Unfortunately most people have a deep need to 'belong' and in that belonging they are often coerced by the mood of the group into whatever is the consensus of said group. It is hard to stand alone as a rational clear headed person when your friends may be pulling you into some other mode. Maybe that's just my feeling as an Introvert who tends to 'belong' nowhere in particular - but I've always seen that 'belonging' as giving up your independance for a price I don't wish to pay ! A lot of our human issues are caused by people who belong to a group & then need to confirm their loyalty to said group by doing what the consensus of said group's endeavors are said to be ! Hence the hysterical behavior of Hamas people trying to prove themselves. Unfortunately this group are followers of the extremist writings of their 'book' and believe their job is to convert, subdue or kill every other human in their God's name - this is not just about Israel which is merely the first target - all of us will be next if they get enough traction for their cause ! Palestinians & all other ordinary Muslims need to ask themselves if they are prepared to stand up against this extreme version of Islam or not - I believe the biggest problem is FEAR of such extremists within their own ranks !!!
Jewish have been attacked for decades 😔! They do have the right to defend themselves!!! " poor arabs" I'm gonna cry! They knew what will happen when attack Israel, Israel is like someone with PTSD!! Loosing nerves. And they were arabs devoted his population!!!
Does that right extend to the right to slaughter civilians?
If someone murders your family and then hides out in another family’s house, are you justified in slaughtering that family just to get at the murderer?
The Israeli army does NOT slaughter civilians...The hamas terrorists use the civilians as shields. The Numbers of those killed include the terrorists and are greatly exaggerated
Hi, Alice… Your interpretation of “slaughter” is doing a fair amount of heavy lifting. The bombing of that refugee camp, with the intention of getting to the Hamas complex underneath it, resulted in way too many unnecessary (IMO) Gazan deaths. The point expressed in Chris’ last question is crucial.
My favorite Casey Stengel quote, in response to being asked whether an opposing picture throws a spitball, said, “I don’t know if he throws a spitball, but he sure spits on the ball“. You can argue that what happened to the Gazans in that camp wasn’t, in some sophistic sense, “slaughter“, but that doesn’t diminish the horror, lack of regard for the safety of noncombatants and lack of proportionality. It doesn’t matter what you call it.🤔😉😊
Are you equally worried about the way Hamas uses Palestinian civilians as human shields? How about how Hamas refuses them shelter in their tunnels? How about the firing of rockets into Israeli towns from behind and under civilians, and dropping hundreds of misfires on Palestinians?
I'm asking because you haven't mentioned that at all.
If you cared about Palestinian civilians, perhaps you should direct your concern to Hamas, maybe call on them to release the civilians they kidnapped and surrender in order to end the war.
Sorry, I’m not playing your bullshit game. I’m not gonna try to justify words that you put in my mouth, that you think you’ve gotten from trying to read my mind, which you do miserably. You don’t seem to care about Palestinian children. Or do you? (See how that works?) I limited my comment to Alice’s use of the word “slaughter”. I find your inferences insulting and offensive.🤔😉😊
I care to see Palestinian children free from a totalitarian Islamist government that steals their aid money and uses them as human shields in regularly instigated wars, and indoctrinates them into being mass murderers (all the Palestinian death squad members graduated UNRWA schools). What's on your mind, buddy?
When a people attacks innocent civilians in Israel; then they can expect retaliation...The "refugee camp" has existed for so many years--why? Because the Palestinians prefer to be used by hamas and continue to hate Jewish people. There have been billions of dollars given to the "refugees"--where has the money gone? To weaponize against Israel. Instead of financing education and social needs of the Palestine populace.. Victim mentality
“When a people attacks innocent civilians in Israel; then they can expect retaliation”
I’m not disagreeing with that. The key part being “they” are those who attacked innocents. Much of Israel’s response has been disregard for innocent civilians who are in the way of them getting to the “they”.
If a gunman goes on a rampage then hides in a classroom of children it is NOT okay to bomb the class just to get at the gunman.
I point you back to my question which I notice you didn’t even attempt to respond to.
To respond to what you did write, legitimate credible news outlets have reported on the thousands of civilians killed in Gaza by Israel in the past month.
The terrorist attack by Hamas was barbaric and all involved should absolutely be hunted down an brought to Justice.
BUT
Hamas’s attack does not justify Israel committing its own war crimes in response.
- indiscriminate attacks on civilians and collective punishment are war crimes. In the first 19 days Israel conducted over 7,000 strikes which, among thousands of other civilian casualties, included over 2,000 children. Shutting off electricity, food, water, and other life-essential supplies collectively punish the entire civilian Gaza population.
- The International Committee of the Red Cross: "“The instructions issued by the Israeli authorities for the population of Gaza City to immediately leave their homes, coupled with the complete siege, explicitly denying them food, water and electricity are not compatible with international humanitarian law."
- On 9 October the IDF carried out mass-casualty airstrikes against the Jabalia and Al-Shati refugee camps. On 19 October they bombed the Church of Saint Porphyrius, where hundreds of Christians and Muslims were sheltering.
The terrorist attack by Hamas targeted civilians, took civilians hostage, and in many other ways was a war crime.
Israel's retaliation should be held to the same standard.
Sure, that independent commission, is it a UNHRC one? That organization that just voted Iran to chair the council? And how could they possibly collect material in 32 days of fighting to conclude such a thing? Pardon me if that sounds ridiculous and perfectly UN with its unbelievable bias.
Next, Amnesty, that organization whose members tweeted support for the Hamas massacre? Great track record for impartiality, and nothing says 'human rights' like members who celebrate a massacre of civilians.
Where have there been indiscriminate attacks on civilians? By the IDF that cleared a path for civilians to flee Gaza city under Hamas fire? That's very consistent, don't you think? You aren't spreading propaganda at all.
And your fucking ICRC, which haven't yet demanded access to 241 kidnapped civilians, a crime against humanity, are suddenly worried about war crimes? Are you for real? Are they?
Did HRW mention Hamas sitting on the fuel and water it's denying Palestinians? In what universe is Israel supposed to give fuel and electricity to power the generators of Hamas, so it can continue to hold Israeli citizens hostage underground?
Israel made it clear that it'll pause for a swap of Palestinian terrorists for its civilians. The ICRC is supposed to verify who they are, who is alive and who is dead. None of that has happened, and the ICRC isn't in any hurry to demand it of Hamas, but like you feels fine acting as if that isn't an ongoing war crime, and a major cause cause of this war.
You exceed yourself with your need to protect Hamas, and redirect attention from their continuing war crimes. I don't expect much else from loathsome progressive propagandists like you, though.
"Wait, there are children in the area" Exclusive Footage of an Air Strike Being Called Off
It was a general question. That you require it has to apply to only one side reveals a bias.
Killing innocents is wrong. Period.
Saying, for example, “Innocents on our side were killed so we get to do whatever we want, including killing innocents on the other side, to get to those responsible.” Is morally bankrupt.
I get (and share in) the anger and shock and justifiable outrage in response to Hamas’s attack. But that doesn’t justify a response that includes indiscriminate attacks that ignore the presence of innocent civilians.
There is no excuse for the Hamas attack or the Israeli response. It’s like that region has gone mad and no one can convince Netanyahu to change his scorched earth way of retaliation. Mossad is supposed to be among the best. I’m sure Israel has a commando squad and other specialized units they could have sent in.
I just wish the killing on both sides would stop, it’s as if it were my own parents were fighting. I don’t want either one to win I just want them to stop fighting.
The story that this war is about revenge is a progressive excuse for both-siding Israel into a “not allowed to respond” corner. This war is defensive, with the goal of destroying the terror infrastructure of the organization that just massacred 1200 civilians in Israel and shot 8000 rockets into its cities. It takes a special kind of propaganda to claim that such a war isn’t necessary. By all means you should set an example and invite Islamist terrorists to live next to you. Israel prefers not to wait for them to regroup and strike again.
I'd agree that the war against Hamas is necessary. I absolutely don't agree that the prosecution of that war has to include indiscriminate attacks and punishing of the entire civilian population of Gaza.
Anyone suggesting Israel is "not allowed to respond" is being as ridiculous a those saying "allowed to defend itself" means it can do whatever it wants.
You're oh-so-typical-of-you "then why don't you invite terrorist to be neighbors" just continues to show how closed you are to reason and the reality of the situation.
They response isn’t indiscriminate, you just keep echoing pro Hamas propaganda there.
A country that wants to be indiscriminate doesn’t spread leaflets and send texts and call civilians to move out of the Gaza city area. It doesn’t risk its own soldiers to open a major road as a humanitarian evacuation corridor for Palestinian civilians while taking fire from Hamas who are eager to keep their human shields.
You're kidding with that stupid metaphor? You think a murderer hiding behind his own family doesn't get taken out by law enforcement? You just leave him be to come back and murder someone else because he hid behind his family?
Asshole, I'm correcting your own dumb metaphor. The murderer is hiding surrounded by his own children - Hamas, who are all Palestinians, and the Palestinian civilians they use as human shields, get it?
You have a perfect record with trying to explain why Hamas should survive, like a perfectly idiotic progressive who expects terrorists that massacre civilians to be kept intact and given time to regroup for more massacres, on the condition they're hiding under civilians - none of which is actually disallowed by legal warfare. The logic is impeccable. The care for human rights and civilian life is also really a credit to you and your politics. "By any means", right?
“One protestor has already killed a 69-year-old Jewish man because they didn’t like what he was saying. Are you as angry about that as you are about the little boy killed because he was Palestinian?”
Interestingly, in the two news articles you link to, the one regarding the Jewish man says he “died“ and the one regarding the Palestinian boy says he was “killed“.
So the Palestinian was a victim of violence while the Jew just passed away?
I would think because it's clear the boy was stabbed with the intent to kill whereas the older man was hit not necessarily with murder in mind. It's still a homicide fueled by hate, of course, but i get the semantic difference.
That may be the reason for the difference. Although I do wonder if that much thought goes into the crafting of headlines, given how little often seems to go into the body of the articles.
I do note how often the media reports that people “lost their lives“ rather than “were killed” when there’s a mass killing. As if their lives were something they carelessly misplaced rather than a something someone else violently took from them. Makes me sensitive to how a murder is described.
It may not even be a conscious decision, just an a built-in bias.
Yes. Exactly my thought/point.
Even when someone dies now of natural causes they didn’t die, they “passed” or “passed away.” No. They died.
I think that there is a difference with the Palestinian boy murdered and the Jewish man was hit with the megaphone (assaulted) but probably without intent to kill. That being said the way this was written about diminished Jewish lives.
The killing of the Jewish man is now officially a homicide
Nice that it's now official. But he was attacked by someone else and died as a result. It was a homicide the moment he died.
Exactly
1. Was the Palestinian kid murdered by someone Jewish?
2. The person attacked was definitely Jewish, and the attacker was definitely pro Palestinian. Not sure what you're driving at - that he didn't die because he was bashed on the head by a Hamas loving asshole?
3. The woman backing up her SUV into what she thought was a Jewish school was definitely Arab American.
4. The French Jewish woman stabbed in Lyon by a pro Hamas activist is indisputable.
5. The attacks on Jewish college students by pro Hamas activists are indisputable.
Hi, Bee, I think you may be misunderstanding what Christopher was getting at. Irrespective of who the attacker was, the verb used for the attack on each differed based on the ethnicity of the victim. The Palestinian kid was “killed“ — an active verb; the Jewish guy just “died” — a much more passive verb, as if it were somehow less egregious. I believe Christopher was asserting that this distinction was evidence of a double standard, and an anti-Semitic presumption. 🤔😉😊
Maybe, but I doubt it. I’ve exchanged words with our good man Christopher before. Methinks it was to throw doubt on a pro Hamas protestor murdering a Jewish person who dared wave an Israeli flag.
No maybe. Jeff got my point exactly.
You, on the other hand, seem determined to ascribe to me positions I’ve never held so you can see things the way you want, regardless of how they are.
Must be a different Christopher Foxx commenting elsewhere in the comments section here, and otherwise all over Substack.
"and otherwise all over Substack"
Yup, must be some other Christopher Foxx since I typically read only half a dozen Substacks, and comment on maybe half of those. But don't let that stop you from continuing to read into what I write what you want to see rather than what I actually write.
Yes, that was exactly my point. The different connotations of the words was, as I said, “interesting” in what one might infer from it.
Thank you for your reading comprehension. I wish the same could be said for Art Bee, but clearly they have an agenda that blinds them to what others actually write.
Yes. Jews magically die.
“Just two extremist governments who demonstrably do not care about the people, their own or otherwise, caught in the middle of their bloodlust.”
An exactly right description.
Lokai and Bele would feel right at home.
(I’m assuming Justin is enough of a fellow geek to get the reference.) 🤓
Thank you, a considered and balanced piece on an immensely complicated subject. I have many Palestinian friends and I have many Jewish friends, all of whom, yes all of whom, I guess I'm just lucky with my friends, agree that the only thing that will ever come of violence is more violence. That said, the 'leadership' on both / all sides is comprised of old men who don't seem to command universal, or even majority, support among their communities. We can but hope that eventually younger, wiser, calmer heads will prevail.
Justin, thank you for this essay that so clearly and eloquently explains the double standard that has been adopted by some liberals with regard to Jews. Those who were so quick to denounce anti-Muslim hatred after 9/11 seem to have no problem attacking and hating people who have no control over the actions of a government that is thousands of miles away. The absurdity of it is profoundly difficult to grasp. Do any of these people remember the hundreds of thousands of Israelis who protested in the streets for months against the Netanyahu government? It is disheartening that much of this is being carried out by younger people who consider themselves progressives. Chasing innocent Jewish students into a room and threatening them is the furthest thing from progressive that I can imagine. We all expected that acts of antisemitism would break out once Netanyahu‘s government began their assaults on Gaza. But what we’ve been witnessing over the past month is absolutely beyond the pale.
Well written, Justin. I'd like to suggest a further step - anyone celebrating or excusing a massacre of Israeli civilians can give up the term "peace activist", "pro peace" and "human rights activist" (looking at members of Amnesty International and others after their posts). What they are is pro Hamas, and for the murder of civilians, which is a war crime. Palestinian death squads murdered Israeli Jews, Israeli Arabs, Palestinians working in Israel, Thai and Nepalese farm workers, foreigners visiting an EDM festival. It was senseless, it had zero to do with peace, and less than zero to do with human rights. The far Left has shown itself as ghoulish and as antisemitic as the far Right.
This is the most realistic and fair writing I’ve come across since Oct 7. The ignorance and intolerance of younger generations is astounding especially those on college campuses. You’d think that by the time they make it there they’d be more informed.
The way Jimmy Carter mediated peace between Israel and Egypt, left in the dust of history books in its most simplistic form, not that other US presidents haven’t tried.
The bottom line is that even when this is over their will still be pockets of retaliation, bombings, indiscriminate killing, massacres in the region that I’ve seen since a little girl watching the CBS News with Walter Cronkite and remember my mother saying this will probably never end and seems she was right. I never heard either parent speak badly of either side or sides thank goodness. I grew up in a small rural town on the border of North and South Carolina, and I never knew that anyone was prejudiced against Jews until I was in my late teens and the mini series “The Holocaust” came out. After that my mother explained it to me. This was in the late 70’s. There was one older jewish couple in town, Mr Shuller, he owned a furniture store and walking through town I’d that he and other proprietors would be sitting outside their stores talking and smoking their cigars or cigarettes. He was just another store owner to me and this was in a town where all last names were of Scot Irish except Mr. Shuller and Mr. Pigolosky who owned a law office. No one ever referred to either in a negative way. After the Holocaust tv series I started reading as many books as I could find on it and in WWII.
I still don’t get the hate and unaceptance. I never will.
I don’t want either side to win, I just want it to stop
None of us chose who we actually are or where we were born, and it is up to each one of us to recognize that is the situation with every other human, each one trying very hard to survive in the place they found themselves ! Unfortunately most people have a deep need to 'belong' and in that belonging they are often coerced by the mood of the group into whatever is the consensus of said group. It is hard to stand alone as a rational clear headed person when your friends may be pulling you into some other mode. Maybe that's just my feeling as an Introvert who tends to 'belong' nowhere in particular - but I've always seen that 'belonging' as giving up your independance for a price I don't wish to pay ! A lot of our human issues are caused by people who belong to a group & then need to confirm their loyalty to said group by doing what the consensus of said group's endeavors are said to be ! Hence the hysterical behavior of Hamas people trying to prove themselves. Unfortunately this group are followers of the extremist writings of their 'book' and believe their job is to convert, subdue or kill every other human in their God's name - this is not just about Israel which is merely the first target - all of us will be next if they get enough traction for their cause ! Palestinians & all other ordinary Muslims need to ask themselves if they are prepared to stand up against this extreme version of Islam or not - I believe the biggest problem is FEAR of such extremists within their own ranks !!!
"I wouldn't want to join a group that would have me as a member" Paraphrase of a Groucho Marx quote. Himself a Jew.
I don’t agree with moral equivalency here but at least the author is not defending Hamas
Jewish have been attacked for decades 😔! They do have the right to defend themselves!!! " poor arabs" I'm gonna cry! They knew what will happen when attack Israel, Israel is like someone with PTSD!! Loosing nerves. And they were arabs devoted his population!!!
“They do have the right to defend themselves!!!”
Does that right extend to the right to slaughter civilians?
If someone murders your family and then hides out in another family’s house, are you justified in slaughtering that family just to get at the murderer?
The Israeli army does NOT slaughter civilians...The hamas terrorists use the civilians as shields. The Numbers of those killed include the terrorists and are greatly exaggerated
How does anyone even believe a thing from Hamas a radical Islamist barbarian regime?
Hi, Alice… Your interpretation of “slaughter” is doing a fair amount of heavy lifting. The bombing of that refugee camp, with the intention of getting to the Hamas complex underneath it, resulted in way too many unnecessary (IMO) Gazan deaths. The point expressed in Chris’ last question is crucial.
My favorite Casey Stengel quote, in response to being asked whether an opposing picture throws a spitball, said, “I don’t know if he throws a spitball, but he sure spits on the ball“. You can argue that what happened to the Gazans in that camp wasn’t, in some sophistic sense, “slaughter“, but that doesn’t diminish the horror, lack of regard for the safety of noncombatants and lack of proportionality. It doesn’t matter what you call it.🤔😉😊
Are you equally worried about the way Hamas uses Palestinian civilians as human shields? How about how Hamas refuses them shelter in their tunnels? How about the firing of rockets into Israeli towns from behind and under civilians, and dropping hundreds of misfires on Palestinians?
I'm asking because you haven't mentioned that at all.
If you cared about Palestinian civilians, perhaps you should direct your concern to Hamas, maybe call on them to release the civilians they kidnapped and surrender in order to end the war.
Sorry, I’m not playing your bullshit game. I’m not gonna try to justify words that you put in my mouth, that you think you’ve gotten from trying to read my mind, which you do miserably. You don’t seem to care about Palestinian children. Or do you? (See how that works?) I limited my comment to Alice’s use of the word “slaughter”. I find your inferences insulting and offensive.🤔😉😊
I care to see Palestinian children free from a totalitarian Islamist government that steals their aid money and uses them as human shields in regularly instigated wars, and indoctrinates them into being mass murderers (all the Palestinian death squad members graduated UNRWA schools). What's on your mind, buddy?
👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍
When a people attacks innocent civilians in Israel; then they can expect retaliation...The "refugee camp" has existed for so many years--why? Because the Palestinians prefer to be used by hamas and continue to hate Jewish people. There have been billions of dollars given to the "refugees"--where has the money gone? To weaponize against Israel. Instead of financing education and social needs of the Palestine populace.. Victim mentality
“When a people attacks innocent civilians in Israel; then they can expect retaliation”
I’m not disagreeing with that. The key part being “they” are those who attacked innocents. Much of Israel’s response has been disregard for innocent civilians who are in the way of them getting to the “they”.
If a gunman goes on a rampage then hides in a classroom of children it is NOT okay to bomb the class just to get at the gunman.
Agreed 👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍
I point you back to my question which I notice you didn’t even attempt to respond to.
To respond to what you did write, legitimate credible news outlets have reported on the thousands of civilians killed in Gaza by Israel in the past month.
The terrorist attack by Hamas was barbaric and all involved should absolutely be hunted down an brought to Justice.
BUT
Hamas’s attack does not justify Israel committing its own war crimes in response.
On what basis are you claiming that Israel is committing war crimes? The reports from the Hamas-run ministry of health?
"I’m an expert in urban warfare. Israel is upholding the laws of war":
https://www.cnn.com/2023/11/07/opinions/israel-hamas-gaza-not-war-crimes-spencer/index.html
- The UN Independent International Commission of Inquiry on the Occupied Palestinian Territory has said there is "already clear evidence" of war crimes. https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases/2023/10/commission-inquiry-collecting-evidence-war-crimes-committed-all-sides-israel
- https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2023/10/damning-evidence-of-war-crimes-as-israeli-attacks-wipe-out-entire-families-in-gaza/
- indiscriminate attacks on civilians and collective punishment are war crimes. In the first 19 days Israel conducted over 7,000 strikes which, among thousands of other civilian casualties, included over 2,000 children. Shutting off electricity, food, water, and other life-essential supplies collectively punish the entire civilian Gaza population.
- The International Committee of the Red Cross: "“The instructions issued by the Israeli authorities for the population of Gaza City to immediately leave their homes, coupled with the complete siege, explicitly denying them food, water and electricity are not compatible with international humanitarian law."
- Willfully blocking humanitarian relief from reaching civilians in need is a war crime. https://www.hrw.org/news/2023/10/23/israel-still-blocking-aid-civilians-gaza
- On 9 October the IDF carried out mass-casualty airstrikes against the Jabalia and Al-Shati refugee camps. On 19 October they bombed the Church of Saint Porphyrius, where hundreds of Christians and Muslims were sheltering.
The terrorist attack by Hamas targeted civilians, took civilians hostage, and in many other ways was a war crime.
Israel's retaliation should be held to the same standard.
Sure, that independent commission, is it a UNHRC one? That organization that just voted Iran to chair the council? And how could they possibly collect material in 32 days of fighting to conclude such a thing? Pardon me if that sounds ridiculous and perfectly UN with its unbelievable bias.
https://www.ejiltalk.org/biased-selective-antisemitic-accusations-against-the-un-commission-of-inquiry-on-israel-and-the-occupied-palestinian-territories/
Next, Amnesty, that organization whose members tweeted support for the Hamas massacre? Great track record for impartiality, and nothing says 'human rights' like members who celebrate a massacre of civilians.
Where have there been indiscriminate attacks on civilians? By the IDF that cleared a path for civilians to flee Gaza city under Hamas fire? That's very consistent, don't you think? You aren't spreading propaganda at all.
And your fucking ICRC, which haven't yet demanded access to 241 kidnapped civilians, a crime against humanity, are suddenly worried about war crimes? Are you for real? Are they?
Did HRW mention Hamas sitting on the fuel and water it's denying Palestinians? In what universe is Israel supposed to give fuel and electricity to power the generators of Hamas, so it can continue to hold Israeli citizens hostage underground?
Israel made it clear that it'll pause for a swap of Palestinian terrorists for its civilians. The ICRC is supposed to verify who they are, who is alive and who is dead. None of that has happened, and the ICRC isn't in any hurry to demand it of Hamas, but like you feels fine acting as if that isn't an ongoing war crime, and a major cause cause of this war.
You exceed yourself with your need to protect Hamas, and redirect attention from their continuing war crimes. I don't expect much else from loathsome progressive propagandists like you, though.
"Wait, there are children in the area" Exclusive Footage of an Air Strike Being Called Off
https://substack.com/home/post/p-138660117
When the world gets played
https://idfspokesperson.substack.com/p/when-the-world-gets-played
i hope you are referring to the terrorists from Palestine
It was a general question. That you require it has to apply to only one side reveals a bias.
Killing innocents is wrong. Period.
Saying, for example, “Innocents on our side were killed so we get to do whatever we want, including killing innocents on the other side, to get to those responsible.” Is morally bankrupt.
I get (and share in) the anger and shock and justifiable outrage in response to Hamas’s attack. But that doesn’t justify a response that includes indiscriminate attacks that ignore the presence of innocent civilians.
There is no excuse for the Hamas attack or the Israeli response. It’s like that region has gone mad and no one can convince Netanyahu to change his scorched earth way of retaliation. Mossad is supposed to be among the best. I’m sure Israel has a commando squad and other specialized units they could have sent in.
I just wish the killing on both sides would stop, it’s as if it were my own parents were fighting. I don’t want either one to win I just want them to stop fighting.
The story that this war is about revenge is a progressive excuse for both-siding Israel into a “not allowed to respond” corner. This war is defensive, with the goal of destroying the terror infrastructure of the organization that just massacred 1200 civilians in Israel and shot 8000 rockets into its cities. It takes a special kind of propaganda to claim that such a war isn’t necessary. By all means you should set an example and invite Islamist terrorists to live next to you. Israel prefers not to wait for them to regroup and strike again.
I'd agree that the war against Hamas is necessary. I absolutely don't agree that the prosecution of that war has to include indiscriminate attacks and punishing of the entire civilian population of Gaza.
Anyone suggesting Israel is "not allowed to respond" is being as ridiculous a those saying "allowed to defend itself" means it can do whatever it wants.
You're oh-so-typical-of-you "then why don't you invite terrorist to be neighbors" just continues to show how closed you are to reason and the reality of the situation.
They response isn’t indiscriminate, you just keep echoing pro Hamas propaganda there.
A country that wants to be indiscriminate doesn’t spread leaflets and send texts and call civilians to move out of the Gaza city area. It doesn’t risk its own soldiers to open a major road as a humanitarian evacuation corridor for Palestinian civilians while taking fire from Hamas who are eager to keep their human shields.
It doesn’t call Palestinian civilians on the phone to get them to evacuate ahead of a bombing: https://www.timesofisrael.com/gaza-man-israeli-agents-spent-hours-on-phone-with-me-to-evacuate-targeted-buildings/amp/
You need to cut down on your diet of pro Palestinian propaganda.
No
You naive
Hahamas , trust me took this into consideration Huh talk to them))😎😎
You're kidding with that stupid metaphor? You think a murderer hiding behind his own family doesn't get taken out by law enforcement? You just leave him be to come back and murder someone else because he hid behind his family?
Where did I say "his own family"? In fact, I specifically wrote "and then hides out in another family’s house".
So far you're maintaining your perfect record of claiming I've said something I've not.
Since you insist on replying to my comments, why don't you try responding to what I actually write?
Asshole, I'm correcting your own dumb metaphor. The murderer is hiding surrounded by his own children - Hamas, who are all Palestinians, and the Palestinian civilians they use as human shields, get it?
You have a perfect record with trying to explain why Hamas should survive, like a perfectly idiotic progressive who expects terrorists that massacre civilians to be kept intact and given time to regroup for more massacres, on the condition they're hiding under civilians - none of which is actually disallowed by legal warfare. The logic is impeccable. The care for human rights and civilian life is also really a credit to you and your politics. "By any means", right?
https://idfspokesperson.substack.com/p/when-the-world-gets-played?