I feel for you, discovering how revolting some 'social justice' 'friends' now that their masks are off after October 7th, celebrating a massacre before a single bomb fell on Gaza. I'm sure it was a similar phenomena for German Jewish intellectuals in the 30s when their friends started championing Nazism. And similarly, I disagree about your assumption these are only thoughts expressed online. There are (Jewish) leftists I know who are saying despicable pro Hamas shit face to face, and doing despicable anti Jewish things in person. Those are people I will not talk to ever again - it's not about their 'politics' it's about their hateful actions. I could theoretically forgive someone who did that and was actually contrite about it, but I doubt any of these Hamassholes will change. Till then, cutting them out is good for my mental health, and a clear signal that their behavior is beyond excusable.
"The latest explosion of violence in the Middle East has caused extreme tension in friendship circles to the point where many people have cut off lifelong friendships almost overnight. This can be enormously distressing to people who can suddenly find themselves socially isolated in close-knit friendship groups. Some of these friendships will heal, some won’t, but it can be a traumatic experience to be shut off by those close to you over a political position you have taken."
I can't tell you how many friends I've lost because of this. I've been called a Nazi, a fascist, an apartheid supporter/enabler", and even worse than that, by people who suddenly feel quite liberated to say that Israel has absolutely no right to exist and that every Jew who lives there should "go home" (like the vast majority of them weren't born there), and who then feel equally free to make life a living hell for Jews in every country in the world that isn't Israel (proving, ironically, how important it is that Israel continues to exist). I've unsubscribed from numerous Substacks and/or political newsletters (well over 20 at this point) because the overwhelming majority of people who comment on them, and who I previously saw as friends, or at least allies, have openly accused my fellow Jews and I of either engaging in genocide or, at best, being complicit/indifferent to it. Maybe some of these relationships will return, but I suspect that in my case alone, they will not. It will take me a very long time to get past what has happened and been said over the last ten weeks.
I’m sorry. I’m not Jewish, but have been horrified as well. It’s such cruel irony to call a Jew a Nazi. My friends and I aren’t on social media much, but we are all on your side and I hope there are many more like us, who see antisemitism for what it is. It seems like the loudest voices are never the right ones. Take care of yourself.
I’m honestly impressed by the number of commenters here who are proving Ben’s thesis about people really getting close minded and needing a break from the Internet.
Pro Hamas for some means ceasefire now. I want to believe the majority of people think ceasefire now means stop killing civilians. Maybe I’m just hanging onto a shred of humanity.
Exactly what pro-Hamas propaganda have I peddled? Please point to it. It was the multiple times I’ve called their attack on Oct 11th barbaric, right? Yes, that must be it.
Because the only other explanation is you’re lying so you can continue to hold onto the worldview you want to have. One that includes “Anyone who doesn’t agree with me 100% clearly totally supports the other side.”
Any numbers I’ve used didn’t come from Hamas. But I guess independent reports, the UN, and just about every govt including Israel has lied about the casualty figures they’ve reported.
But for arguments sake, how many people do you say Israel has killed in their bombing campaign?
Yes, Hamas numbers are fictional and quoting them is in service of a ceasefire that saves Hamas. The UN had schools filled with ammunition, rocket launch sites and Hamas tunnels, WTF are you talking about ‘independent’. Stop being a useful idiot for Hamas.
The article you link to, the thing you chose to back up your point, talks about journalistic standards and complains that the deaths in Gaza are not as bad as in Dresden or Mariupol. It complains that the comparisons made or implied to other conflicts or times are unfair or misleading. Again, complaints about the journalism.
What is does NOT do is dispute the numbers reported for Gaza.
I lost a friend the very day after the attack. He accused me of not caring about Palestinian babies after reading my response to one of his questions. His question: “What’s your position?”. My response: “I’m anti-Hamas”. That was enough for him to freak out.
It seems like you talk a lot about how hard it is to be Jewish at this point in time. You also mention quite often how horrible the Hamas attack on Sept. 7th was. And you also acknowledge the decades of injustices that the Palestinians have endured as a result of Zionist policies. But I don’t hear/read you saying much about the real time slaughtering of thousands of innocent civilians. For example, the closest you came to addressing the real time slaughtering of innocent civilians was “the latest explosion in violence has caused extreme tension in friendship circles...” I think there are many good folks out there that simply want this slaughtering to stop and that’s all they/we can think about. Of course a rise in antisemitism is terrible. But at this point in time, stopping this slaughtering of civilians is a priority.
Is it acceptable to slit babies’ throats, rape little girls, chop off of the hands and feet of teenagers, gouge out eyes, murder children in front of their parents, murder parents in front of their children then kidnap the children, bind entire families together then burn them alive, and livestream all the above—and worse—on a mass scale—in the pursuit of some political aim? Yes or no? You seem to want Hamas to get a lifeline through a ceasefire, so it can regroup for more of the above.
Is it acceptable to bomb uninvolved civilians, kill thousands of children, deny medical care to infants to get at the Hamas people responsible for the atrocities? Is it acceptable to be as atrocious as those you’re after?
It is acceptable to bomb hospitals that have terrorists firing from inside them, after giving days and weeks for the hospital to evacuate. It is acceptable to bomb a school that had all civilians evacuate from inside it, now that it’s filled with terrorists and tunnels. Of course you won’t ask yourself what the collusion between UNRWA and Hamas means. They have ammunition depots in them and tunnels dug into them, yet none of that was reported to the UN Security Council. That cooperation with Hamas was paid for by international donors and protected by UNRWA.
As for “doing the same thing” - no, you hyperbolic liar, Israel isn’t raping Gazans or abducting them for more rape, not summarily executing them. You’re a propagandist.
Please point to where I wrote “doing the same thing” or that Israel was raping babies or stop lying about what I wrote.
Because your lying about it, repeatedly, is just showing that you have to lie to claim Israel is blameless. If you have to do that, you might want to rethink your apparent absolute black/white view of the world.
Hey guys, I'm going to shut the comments down on this piece if you continue to hurl insults at each other. The only thing we ask is for everyone to be civil on threads. Please respect that. Many thanks.
‘Outstanding warrants’ is a lovely way to refer to rapes, torture of children (eye gouging, chopping off hands and feet), murder of children in front of their parents and parents in front of children, and of course abduction of civilians. What an awesome person you are to minimize what Hamas did for them, you useful idiot.
I had a friend, a secular Jewish emigre who became an Orthodox Jew almost overnight about 30 years ago. It wasn't until after the 2016 election that we became estranged when I suggested that Trump was a unique danger, especially with his rhetoric revolving around the media. He cut me off over an argument about instituting a modernized Fairness Doctrine. Recently, he initiated a reproachment, which I accepted (I attended an Orthodox Shabbat service - a fish out of water!).
As for the situation in Gaza and Israel, I have had to remain largely silent, as I think I have a very unpopular position on the conflict, and don't wish to lose family members over it. But I've long held great disdain for various Israeli governments for their use of settlements and both political and physical violence to subjugate the Palestinians. Similarly, I despise the extremism of organizations like Hamas who subjugate their own people by using them as human shields, and who are barbarous butchers. There are no good actors here. Israel has to elect a government who is actively seeking an equitable solution, and we need an honest Palestinian organization that is dedicated to finding a way forward. Butchery on both sides solves nothing.
Until there are honest brokers on both sides, a pox on both their political houses.
My radical position, apparently, is that killing civilians and children is always bad.
My position comes from dividing the world into those that think violence solves violence and those who do not. Very sad to see the sides many are taking.
I feel for you, discovering how revolting some 'social justice' 'friends' now that their masks are off after October 7th, celebrating a massacre before a single bomb fell on Gaza. I'm sure it was a similar phenomena for German Jewish intellectuals in the 30s when their friends started championing Nazism. And similarly, I disagree about your assumption these are only thoughts expressed online. There are (Jewish) leftists I know who are saying despicable pro Hamas shit face to face, and doing despicable anti Jewish things in person. Those are people I will not talk to ever again - it's not about their 'politics' it's about their hateful actions. I could theoretically forgive someone who did that and was actually contrite about it, but I doubt any of these Hamassholes will change. Till then, cutting them out is good for my mental health, and a clear signal that their behavior is beyond excusable.
The Banter is great, please subscribe.
"The latest explosion of violence in the Middle East has caused extreme tension in friendship circles to the point where many people have cut off lifelong friendships almost overnight. This can be enormously distressing to people who can suddenly find themselves socially isolated in close-knit friendship groups. Some of these friendships will heal, some won’t, but it can be a traumatic experience to be shut off by those close to you over a political position you have taken."
I can't tell you how many friends I've lost because of this. I've been called a Nazi, a fascist, an apartheid supporter/enabler", and even worse than that, by people who suddenly feel quite liberated to say that Israel has absolutely no right to exist and that every Jew who lives there should "go home" (like the vast majority of them weren't born there), and who then feel equally free to make life a living hell for Jews in every country in the world that isn't Israel (proving, ironically, how important it is that Israel continues to exist). I've unsubscribed from numerous Substacks and/or political newsletters (well over 20 at this point) because the overwhelming majority of people who comment on them, and who I previously saw as friends, or at least allies, have openly accused my fellow Jews and I of either engaging in genocide or, at best, being complicit/indifferent to it. Maybe some of these relationships will return, but I suspect that in my case alone, they will not. It will take me a very long time to get past what has happened and been said over the last ten weeks.
I’m sorry. I’m not Jewish, but have been horrified as well. It’s such cruel irony to call a Jew a Nazi. My friends and I aren’t on social media much, but we are all on your side and I hope there are many more like us, who see antisemitism for what it is. It seems like the loudest voices are never the right ones. Take care of yourself.
Thank you so much for this. ❤️
Honest question. Could you predict how these people would react? Did you have an inkling? Just wondering.
In some cases, I probably "should have seen it coming". In others, I was completely stunned.
It must have been awful when you didn’t expect it. A real blow.
It was an incredible disappointment, but the past ten weeks have been very "educational" in terms of who my allies/friends really are.
I’m honestly impressed by the number of commenters here who are proving Ben’s thesis about people really getting close minded and needing a break from the Internet.
Pro Hamas for some means ceasefire now. I want to believe the majority of people think ceasefire now means stop killing civilians. Maybe I’m just hanging onto a shred of humanity.
You need to take a break from peddling pro Hamas propaganda.
Exactly what pro-Hamas propaganda have I peddled? Please point to it. It was the multiple times I’ve called their attack on Oct 11th barbaric, right? Yes, that must be it.
Because the only other explanation is you’re lying so you can continue to hold onto the worldview you want to have. One that includes “Anyone who doesn’t agree with me 100% clearly totally supports the other side.”
Peddling both the ‘indiscriminate bombing’ and the imaginary casualty numbers of Hamas like a useful idiot.
Any numbers I’ve used didn’t come from Hamas. But I guess independent reports, the UN, and just about every govt including Israel has lied about the casualty figures they’ve reported.
But for arguments sake, how many people do you say Israel has killed in their bombing campaign?
Yes, Hamas numbers are fictional and quoting them is in service of a ceasefire that saves Hamas. The UN had schools filled with ammunition, rocket launch sites and Hamas tunnels, WTF are you talking about ‘independent’. Stop being a useful idiot for Hamas.
https://open.substack.com/pub/claireberlinski/p/has-israel-really-killed-more-women?r=1mebvk&utm_medium=ios&utm_campaign=post
The article you link to, the thing you chose to back up your point, talks about journalistic standards and complains that the deaths in Gaza are not as bad as in Dresden or Mariupol. It complains that the comparisons made or implied to other conflicts or times are unfair or misleading. Again, complaints about the journalism.
What is does NOT do is dispute the numbers reported for Gaza.
You want the ‘slaughtering’ to end. Then get a moral backbone and look at the source. Annihilationism from a barbarian Islamic cult called Hamas.
I lost a friend the very day after the attack. He accused me of not caring about Palestinian babies after reading my response to one of his questions. His question: “What’s your position?”. My response: “I’m anti-Hamas”. That was enough for him to freak out.
Yes it’s fine with Denise. Utterly fine. You know Zionists and all that.
It seems like you talk a lot about how hard it is to be Jewish at this point in time. You also mention quite often how horrible the Hamas attack on Sept. 7th was. And you also acknowledge the decades of injustices that the Palestinians have endured as a result of Zionist policies. But I don’t hear/read you saying much about the real time slaughtering of thousands of innocent civilians. For example, the closest you came to addressing the real time slaughtering of innocent civilians was “the latest explosion in violence has caused extreme tension in friendship circles...” I think there are many good folks out there that simply want this slaughtering to stop and that’s all they/we can think about. Of course a rise in antisemitism is terrible. But at this point in time, stopping this slaughtering of civilians is a priority.
Is it acceptable to slit babies’ throats, rape little girls, chop off of the hands and feet of teenagers, gouge out eyes, murder children in front of their parents, murder parents in front of their children then kidnap the children, bind entire families together then burn them alive, and livestream all the above—and worse—on a mass scale—in the pursuit of some political aim? Yes or no? You seem to want Hamas to get a lifeline through a ceasefire, so it can regroup for more of the above.
Is it acceptable to bomb uninvolved civilians, kill thousands of children, deny medical care to infants to get at the Hamas people responsible for the atrocities? Is it acceptable to be as atrocious as those you’re after?
It is acceptable to bomb hospitals that have terrorists firing from inside them, after giving days and weeks for the hospital to evacuate. It is acceptable to bomb a school that had all civilians evacuate from inside it, now that it’s filled with terrorists and tunnels. Of course you won’t ask yourself what the collusion between UNRWA and Hamas means. They have ammunition depots in them and tunnels dug into them, yet none of that was reported to the UN Security Council. That cooperation with Hamas was paid for by international donors and protected by UNRWA.
As for “doing the same thing” - no, you hyperbolic liar, Israel isn’t raping Gazans or abducting them for more rape, not summarily executing them. You’re a propagandist.
Please point to where I wrote “doing the same thing” or that Israel was raping babies or stop lying about what I wrote.
Because your lying about it, repeatedly, is just showing that you have to lie to claim Israel is blameless. If you have to do that, you might want to rethink your apparent absolute black/white view of the world.
You should keep reading and posting from anti Jewish, anti US, anti Ukraine sociopaths like Caitlin Johnstone, as the ‘balanced’ person you are.
Hey guys, I'm going to shut the comments down on this piece if you continue to hurl insults at each other. The only thing we ask is for everyone to be civil on threads. Please respect that. Many thanks.
You know Hamas started a war with its savagery. And what the fuck so you mean by ‘Zionist’ policies? And
The highest estimates of the membership of Hamas have never been more than 25k. The population of Gaza is 2 million.
Do the very simple math.
Like going to war with Houston because of the outstanding warrants for violent crime in the country. Numbers are the same.
‘Outstanding warrants’ is a lovely way to refer to rapes, torture of children (eye gouging, chopping off hands and feet), murder of children in front of their parents and parents in front of children, and of course abduction of civilians. What an awesome person you are to minimize what Hamas did for them, you useful idiot.
https://open.substack.com/pub/claireberlinski/p/has-israel-really-killed-more-women
I had a friend, a secular Jewish emigre who became an Orthodox Jew almost overnight about 30 years ago. It wasn't until after the 2016 election that we became estranged when I suggested that Trump was a unique danger, especially with his rhetoric revolving around the media. He cut me off over an argument about instituting a modernized Fairness Doctrine. Recently, he initiated a reproachment, which I accepted (I attended an Orthodox Shabbat service - a fish out of water!).
As for the situation in Gaza and Israel, I have had to remain largely silent, as I think I have a very unpopular position on the conflict, and don't wish to lose family members over it. But I've long held great disdain for various Israeli governments for their use of settlements and both political and physical violence to subjugate the Palestinians. Similarly, I despise the extremism of organizations like Hamas who subjugate their own people by using them as human shields, and who are barbarous butchers. There are no good actors here. Israel has to elect a government who is actively seeking an equitable solution, and we need an honest Palestinian organization that is dedicated to finding a way forward. Butchery on both sides solves nothing.
Until there are honest brokers on both sides, a pox on both their political houses.
I remember exactly where I was when I saw that
My radical position, apparently, is that killing civilians and children is always bad.
My position comes from dividing the world into those that think violence solves violence and those who do not. Very sad to see the sides many are taking.
You just compared rape, torture and abduction of Israeli civilians to being as minor as a traffic violation. Don’t act moral, you ghoul.
So sadly the truth. Thanks