I feel for you, discovering how revolting some 'social justice' 'friends' now that their masks are off after October 7th, celebrating a massacre before a single bomb fell on Gaza. I'm sure it was a similar phenomena for German Jewish intellectuals in the 30s when their friends started championing Nazism. And similarly, I disagree about your assumption these are only thoughts expressed online. There are (Jewish) leftists I know who are saying despicable pro Hamas shit face to face, and doing despicable anti Jewish things in person. Those are people I will not talk to ever again - it's not about their 'politics' it's about their hateful actions. I could theoretically forgive someone who did that and was actually contrite about it, but I doubt any of these Hamassholes will change. Till then, cutting them out is good for my mental health, and a clear signal that their behavior is beyond excusable.
"The latest explosion of violence in the Middle East has caused extreme tension in friendship circles to the point where many people have cut off lifelong friendships almost overnight. This can be enormously distressing to people who can suddenly find themselves socially isolated in close-knit friendship groups. Some of these friendships will heal, some won’t, but it can be a traumatic experience to be shut off by those close to you over a political position you have taken."
I can't tell you how many friends I've lost because of this. I've been called a Nazi, a fascist, an apartheid supporter/enabler", and even worse than that, by people who suddenly feel quite liberated to say that Israel has absolutely no right to exist and that every Jew who lives there should "go home" (like the vast majority of them weren't born there), and who then feel equally free to make life a living hell for Jews in every country in the world that isn't Israel (proving, ironically, how important it is that Israel continues to exist). I've unsubscribed from numerous Substacks and/or political newsletters (well over 20 at this point) because the overwhelming majority of people who comment on them, and who I previously saw as friends, or at least allies, have openly accused my fellow Jews and I of either engaging in genocide or, at best, being complicit/indifferent to it. Maybe some of these relationships will return, but I suspect that in my case alone, they will not. It will take me a very long time to get past what has happened and been said over the last ten weeks.
I’m honestly impressed by the number of commenters here who are proving Ben’s thesis about people really getting close minded and needing a break from the Internet.
I lost a friend the very day after the attack. He accused me of not caring about Palestinian babies after reading my response to one of his questions. His question: “What’s your position?”. My response: “I’m anti-Hamas”. That was enough for him to freak out.
It seems like you talk a lot about how hard it is to be Jewish at this point in time. You also mention quite often how horrible the Hamas attack on Sept. 7th was. And you also acknowledge the decades of injustices that the Palestinians have endured as a result of Zionist policies. But I don’t hear/read you saying much about the real time slaughtering of thousands of innocent civilians. For example, the closest you came to addressing the real time slaughtering of innocent civilians was “the latest explosion in violence has caused extreme tension in friendship circles...” I think there are many good folks out there that simply want this slaughtering to stop and that’s all they/we can think about. Of course a rise in antisemitism is terrible. But at this point in time, stopping this slaughtering of civilians is a priority.
I had a friend, a secular Jewish emigre who became an Orthodox Jew almost overnight about 30 years ago. It wasn't until after the 2016 election that we became estranged when I suggested that Trump was a unique danger, especially with his rhetoric revolving around the media. He cut me off over an argument about instituting a modernized Fairness Doctrine. Recently, he initiated a reproachment, which I accepted (I attended an Orthodox Shabbat service - a fish out of water!).
As for the situation in Gaza and Israel, I have had to remain largely silent, as I think I have a very unpopular position on the conflict, and don't wish to lose family members over it. But I've long held great disdain for various Israeli governments for their use of settlements and both political and physical violence to subjugate the Palestinians. Similarly, I despise the extremism of organizations like Hamas who subjugate their own people by using them as human shields, and who are barbarous butchers. There are no good actors here. Israel has to elect a government who is actively seeking an equitable solution, and we need an honest Palestinian organization that is dedicated to finding a way forward. Butchery on both sides solves nothing.
Until there are honest brokers on both sides, a pox on both their political houses.
My radical position, apparently, is that killing civilians and children is always bad.
My position comes from dividing the world into those that think violence solves violence and those who do not. Very sad to see the sides many are taking.
I feel for you, discovering how revolting some 'social justice' 'friends' now that their masks are off after October 7th, celebrating a massacre before a single bomb fell on Gaza. I'm sure it was a similar phenomena for German Jewish intellectuals in the 30s when their friends started championing Nazism. And similarly, I disagree about your assumption these are only thoughts expressed online. There are (Jewish) leftists I know who are saying despicable pro Hamas shit face to face, and doing despicable anti Jewish things in person. Those are people I will not talk to ever again - it's not about their 'politics' it's about their hateful actions. I could theoretically forgive someone who did that and was actually contrite about it, but I doubt any of these Hamassholes will change. Till then, cutting them out is good for my mental health, and a clear signal that their behavior is beyond excusable.
The Banter is great, please subscribe.
"The latest explosion of violence in the Middle East has caused extreme tension in friendship circles to the point where many people have cut off lifelong friendships almost overnight. This can be enormously distressing to people who can suddenly find themselves socially isolated in close-knit friendship groups. Some of these friendships will heal, some won’t, but it can be a traumatic experience to be shut off by those close to you over a political position you have taken."
I can't tell you how many friends I've lost because of this. I've been called a Nazi, a fascist, an apartheid supporter/enabler", and even worse than that, by people who suddenly feel quite liberated to say that Israel has absolutely no right to exist and that every Jew who lives there should "go home" (like the vast majority of them weren't born there), and who then feel equally free to make life a living hell for Jews in every country in the world that isn't Israel (proving, ironically, how important it is that Israel continues to exist). I've unsubscribed from numerous Substacks and/or political newsletters (well over 20 at this point) because the overwhelming majority of people who comment on them, and who I previously saw as friends, or at least allies, have openly accused my fellow Jews and I of either engaging in genocide or, at best, being complicit/indifferent to it. Maybe some of these relationships will return, but I suspect that in my case alone, they will not. It will take me a very long time to get past what has happened and been said over the last ten weeks.
I’m honestly impressed by the number of commenters here who are proving Ben’s thesis about people really getting close minded and needing a break from the Internet.
You want the ‘slaughtering’ to end. Then get a moral backbone and look at the source. Annihilationism from a barbarian Islamic cult called Hamas.
I lost a friend the very day after the attack. He accused me of not caring about Palestinian babies after reading my response to one of his questions. His question: “What’s your position?”. My response: “I’m anti-Hamas”. That was enough for him to freak out.
Yes it’s fine with Denise. Utterly fine. You know Zionists and all that.
It seems like you talk a lot about how hard it is to be Jewish at this point in time. You also mention quite often how horrible the Hamas attack on Sept. 7th was. And you also acknowledge the decades of injustices that the Palestinians have endured as a result of Zionist policies. But I don’t hear/read you saying much about the real time slaughtering of thousands of innocent civilians. For example, the closest you came to addressing the real time slaughtering of innocent civilians was “the latest explosion in violence has caused extreme tension in friendship circles...” I think there are many good folks out there that simply want this slaughtering to stop and that’s all they/we can think about. Of course a rise in antisemitism is terrible. But at this point in time, stopping this slaughtering of civilians is a priority.
I had a friend, a secular Jewish emigre who became an Orthodox Jew almost overnight about 30 years ago. It wasn't until after the 2016 election that we became estranged when I suggested that Trump was a unique danger, especially with his rhetoric revolving around the media. He cut me off over an argument about instituting a modernized Fairness Doctrine. Recently, he initiated a reproachment, which I accepted (I attended an Orthodox Shabbat service - a fish out of water!).
As for the situation in Gaza and Israel, I have had to remain largely silent, as I think I have a very unpopular position on the conflict, and don't wish to lose family members over it. But I've long held great disdain for various Israeli governments for their use of settlements and both political and physical violence to subjugate the Palestinians. Similarly, I despise the extremism of organizations like Hamas who subjugate their own people by using them as human shields, and who are barbarous butchers. There are no good actors here. Israel has to elect a government who is actively seeking an equitable solution, and we need an honest Palestinian organization that is dedicated to finding a way forward. Butchery on both sides solves nothing.
Until there are honest brokers on both sides, a pox on both their political houses.
I remember exactly where I was when I saw that
My radical position, apparently, is that killing civilians and children is always bad.
My position comes from dividing the world into those that think violence solves violence and those who do not. Very sad to see the sides many are taking.
So sadly the truth. Thanks