Personal responsibility. I'm going to haul out that age-old conservative mantra. One chooses to be ignorant. People who fall for cults are equally susceptible to any type of con. Here's the thing - along with the cult aspect, the other identifying feature for most all MAGA folk is faith. Even mainstream religion teaches that events are out of our control, that everything is in "God's hands." It is not.
They believe everything happens for a purpose, and that Trump has a divine purpose. Some worship the Republican party. If a person truly gives up all agency and autonomy on the premise that everything is out of human control, they have given up on the principles upon which the country was founded.
It is time to start calling these people traitors. They have made their decision.
I believe the Gen Y and Z may be the answer. I believe they are more educated and include more women. I think they will not take the bs that is being handed to us from the Republicans. They seem to question things much more. I am an 80 year old….always voted Democrat , but 2 of my kids swing right. That being said, all of my grandkids except one, who takes immense pleasure out of buying me things like trump grass (i.e. Chia trump), are all seriously left leaning. They are the Gen Y and Gen Z voters. They are my hope for the future.
Sure, shifting demographics help, but we can't just sit around and wait for a generation to pass. Instead of looking for someone else to be there answer we need to be taking clear actions ourselves.
This reminds me a little about a "controversy" in my profession - intelligent design. I'm sure it will rear its ugly head again in the future. I teach biology, formerly high school and now college. There was a huge push in some places to have intelligent design taught hand-in-hand with evolution in classrooms. That is, to give scientific validation to the idea we were specially created by God, by presenting (what we might now call) "alternative" facts to back up the biblical account of the Earth being 6,000 or so years old. No scientist in their right mind would consider teaching that to children because, of course, there is no evidence for the existence of God.
I've had college students attempt to debate me. Nope. There is no longer anything to debate. I direct students to YouTube to watch the debate between Bill Nye and Ken Ham. I also have a double-sided page with a bibliography of both scientific and more philosophical papers to read on the subject. If a student wants to read and debate those, they can do that during my office hours.
Even after covering evolution extensively in an undergrad (majors) biology course, I've still had students invite me to their church for saving. Even after covering what evolution is and is not, I always - always - stress that personal beliefs are part of being human, and that we need to respect those. But I know - can see it some people's eyes - that they don't believe a word of what I'm teaching them.
I am afraid that I favor the "incapable" explanation. If a person is indoctrinated like this from birth, taught that they have no control or capacity for their actions but to pray for guidance, taught that everything is either good or evil, with very strict definitions, taught that we are "better than" or "superior to" all other species. This is a recipe for disaster.
So, it is the age-old, "Put your faith in X and everything will be okay." This is so much easier for people than to contemplate reality. Let X take care of your problems. God, Trump, the Republican party. That's what's going on, and people believe it, especially if they've grown up with this worldview.
We've come to the point where people are choosing whether to continue America as we know it. It should be clear by now that many people believe in a founding of this country that simply is not true. They are not reading the Federalist Papers, much less the Constitution. Their grasp of history is what Republican politicians have told them. The Basket of Deplorables IS the Republican party now, and that basket has infected the followers.
The huge problem is that some smart people will start shopping around for a new country to live in. I'm serious. There are people who will assess the situation, decide that indeed this cult is poised to take over the U.S. Government - and simply leave. Once the brain drain begins, the country will slide quickly.
“Let X take care of your problems. God, Trump, the Republican party. That's what's going on, and people believe it, especially if they've grown up with this worldview.”
A worldview most highly visible among people who are white, upper middle class (or higher). Because their experience has largely been that things DO just work out for them.
To some extent it’s an understandable view. Everything in their lives has just worked out for them, so their experience tells them that that *IS* how the world works.
One would hope that pursuing a higher education would indicate an openness in their minds to recognizing that their experience is that for a fortunate minority.
Alas, as you see among your students, enrolling in college doesn’t indicate an interest in learning.
Here's the problem. The higher brain functions of logic, critical thinking, processing abstract concepts don't develop until age 16 at the earliest and they have to be triggered by something - higher education, travel, exposure to other cultures, something. Because of the decline in our schools, fewer people are developing those skills. We have a country full of people who take their religions literally, don't question authority, internalize racism, sexism & homophobia to the point that they don't see it and who can't tell a fact from an opinion.
They don't reason, they feel. They live in their Limbic System so they're tribal and suspicious of "other". The only way to reach them is for someone they admire lead them out of it. Liberals can't do it. We keep trying to reason with people functioning at the level of 15 year olds stuck in their mammalian or reptilian brains, both of which are pre-verbal and can't be reached with words. It takes someone familiar - a celebrity, country singer, politician they trust, clergy - to get past their indoctrination. Know anyone like that?
I don’t think anyone here is advising the stronger measures that are needed to disempower MAGA. We are sitting around wringing our hands and asking “but what do we do??” We know what we have to do. MAGA can never threaten this country again. If they win another national election, democracy in this country is OVER. Those are the stakes.
The reason MAGA Cult has such a hold on their base is easy to see -- GOD -- they've convinced the base that GOP = GOD and failure to completely bow down in blind faith will bar the flock from the gates of heaven. My relatives vocalize this daily. My mom (85) was convinced, failure to overturn Roe in her lifetime would banish her from heaven. It was her mission. So the best way to wedge between the con artists and the conned is to get the base to believe that hate-based politics goes against the teachings of Jesus and will in fact, banish the faithful to hell. Now, I personally don't believe in organized religion, the greatest con game of all time, but am willing to become the true voice of God if it helps deprogram the minions.
“hate-based politics goes against the teachings of Jesus”
You’d think would be so obvious that it wouldn’t even need to be said. But the actual fact is, reality is, that the vast majority of “Christians“ actively reject the teachings of Christ even as they claim (falsely, obviously) to follow them.
The "maga cult" is the exposed tip of the iceberg. As long as whyt people exclusively vote reich-publican, that yip will continue its journey to become the majority and not the fringe.
Sorry I did not responded immediately. Yes political leader especially the the right do lie profusely everyday all day. What can you do when their base turn a blind eye to the lies? I thought I was being respectful because I could have said a lot more. Treating people that know these are lies with a kid glove does not help the matter that includes family. A lie is a lie, what they actually see is what is happening look at the lies and death Covid cause, there are no alternative facts and the truth is the truth whether it hurt there feelings or not.
Yes it is too late anytime you can not park your cars at his rallies because your cars are poor. Or when he lies to you he can not even look at you he look off to the side. You wait out in the elements for 2-3 days for a hate rally. If you have to be told what to believe what you see and hear there is no hope for you it time to fly them off to Guantanamo Bay with Fox propaganda Jihad network with the other terrorist. Or sue them out of existence. Will not happen with the spineless democrats and the fake LSM that afraid to ask a si ple correct question. We are doomed.
Many rubes succumbed to the gaslighting & hyperbole, but they don’t turn the channel because the assuaging message of bigotry is what they crave. No watering it down or the excusing dummies for just not knowing better. You yourself claim to not even try to inform ‘just to get along’ but mahgahs doesn’t want to co-exist with progress. Not once has that message been transmitted by GOP, Trump, Bannon, Beck, Hannity, et al. They double down on the lies hoping more rubes don’t notice actual freedom is being removed. Zero tolerance for bigots & traitors. Your rational is just capitulation because you are tired.
I assure you I am in no way defending the crimes and atrocities of the Nazis having lost hundreds of family members to the Holocaust and also having many uncles who fought in the American army during WWII.
All I am saying is they are often thought of us monsters and they were more than that. They were well educated and drank wine and read Goethe poetry and listened to Wagner music. So too MAGA are not stupid hillbillies and worse as they are described on Twitter all day long.
You're right that many are not stupid hillbillies. (Way to counter a stereotype by using a stereotype, BTW.)
Many in the MAGA (née Nazi) crowd are indeed well educated win drinking poetry readers. But whatever education, intelligence, and breeding they may have, their defining characteristic remains that they eagerly support lawlessness, the destruction of democracy, and the genocide of minorities.
Whatever "positive" attributes one may accurately ascribe to them, they are also monsters and that takes precedence. That "they are more than that" pales in comparison to irrelevance. "I'm not just a monster." is meaningless.
I implore you to spend one week watching their news sources and you will see why they think what they do. Miles Law says “Where you stand depends on where you sit.” Please sit in their chairs for a week and you will understand them as a group being lied to on a daily basis by their media sources and I think it will open your eyes a little bit to build bridges not walls with all of our fellow Americans.
I have watched Fox “News”, on several occasions. As I used to occasionally listen to Rush Limbaugh. I’d watch/listen until they told three blatantly obvious lies that would be blindingly apparent to any thinking person.
I never made it past five minutes.
I understand why you have unrelenting sympathy for the poor MAGA victims who have willingly accepted every lie they’ve been told. Your insistence that they are not responsible for their own actions and decisions, your refusal to acknowledge basic facts of actual reality is very similar to theirs.
I am relatively new to social media and have been on Twiter for just over a year. Daily, my feed calls MAGA followers STUPID, HILLBILLIES, WIERDOS, CULTISTS, and more.
On the news and on social media, I see a clear denominator of MAGA being referred to as “the other” – a group of Americans that is so vile, so hostile, so horrible, that it’s not even worth our time to speak to them or understand them.
With the recent arraignments and legal indictments against Donald Trump, and the arrests of his most ardent supporters from the January 6th insurrection, now seems to be the best time to extend an olive branch or two, or 200, to his MAGA supporters, and get to know who they are and how we can shorten the divide between American citizens. And if the politicians won’t do it for us, now is the time for us, every one of us, to do it ourselves. As Abraham Lincoln said, “government should do for people only what they cannot do better by themselves, and no more.”
"a group of Americans that is so vile, so hostile, so horrible, that it’s not even worth our time to speak to them or understand them."
There comes a point when you stop trying to reason with the person who is brandishing a knife at you. When you've tried, and their response is to just yell louder to drown you out and to start actually stabbing you the time for seeking common ground is over.
The MAGA crowd, the entire Republican party, and all who vote for them have made it clear that there is *nothing* that will get them return to reason. Not a violent attempted coup, not women dying from sepsis, not children being forced to carry their rapist's baby, not rampant corruption at the highest levels, the easily preventable deaths of hundreds of thousands of their fellow citizens, not taking toddlers from their mothers and putting them in cages, ...
We have "gotten to know who they are", and they are vile and beyond reason.
We cannot give up on them. We have more in common than you think. We cannot give up ever or we will remain so divided or worse. Now that FOX is being exposed and Trump is being held accountable is the best time for us to extend an olive branch or two or 200. Thank you for your reply. Have a great weekend.
Any time one of them wants to step forward and say “Y’know. I think I may have been going the wrong way.” I’ll be the first in line to talk with them to understand what their view was and whether it was mistaken. To work with them to find a way back, as one would help a recovering addict with compassion.
But as with an alcoholic or drug addict you cannot help those who refuse help, who are trying to burn down your house with you inside for daring to suggest they have a problem you can help with.
You keep insisting we need to just understand them. But we DO understand them. And that is why we recognize them as the highly dangerous people that they are and why we need to fight against them.
You can keep naively insisting we have to understand why they’re throwing the Molotovs through our windows. I’ll be spraying them with a firehose. The moment they put the Molotov down I’m willing to listen. But as long as they are launching them there is no conversation to be had.
I never said none were redeemable. Only that your Pollyanna-ish belief that they all could be if we would just, touchy-feely, sing Kumbaya with people who not only refuse to sing but, in most cases literally, want to kill us during the chorus.
The Mawgawk are hateful, spiteful and outright prejudiced against the ‘other’. The so called movement has othered themselves as separatists, against progress and equality for all. The truth is the olive branch that’s always extended.
Respectfully I disagree. I personally know MAGA supporters, I’m even related to one. MAGA are our family, our friends, our neighbors, our co- workers, our doctors, our business owners, our teachers, our barber, our farmer, and so much more. With the people we are speaking about let’s remember that’s someone’s father or child, a fellow American who might have served his country or community, just like you or your family members.
They are not the other. They have been lied to and manipulated for decades and it is all being exposed now.
I see no olive branch. I see more hostility and attacks from the democrats calling them names which will further divide this county.
We need to speak to them respectfully and hear their pain and address their fears with not just one but hundreds of conversations. It starts with stopping calling them stupid. They are not. We’re the Nazis stupid. They had the highest rate of PHDs of any military in history.
If you label yourself as ‘MAGA’ you have already lost the debate. The best you can do is encourage cult members to read another source of info away from Fox, Bannon, Beck, Levin or Shapiro types as the disinformation is palpable.
No need to debate we need to have discussions and conversations and understand each other more and see each others pain. This cannot happen without the primer of respect. And respect starts by not calling them stupid. We must come together as a people before it is too late.
They are not delusional. They are being lied to by their politicians and media. Hence the Dominion lawsuit and others. I work in IT and I would never blame a victim of a phishing scam. I would run to help them.
And whoever whatever the MAGA gang are what they believe it no excuse for there or his action it is sad how much he lies, he did cause Covid to excel with his nonsense. I hope your family didn’t use bleach or stick a light up wherever; wait for days for a hate rally and lastly have amnesia or just hear what you want to hear when you know it is a lie you seen it with your own eyes. Hillary was right if you follow a man that spew hate sorry my family member if they believe that mess could stay away for me and most of my family. My mom always said you can’t fix stupid and there no excuse to be stupid so much actual research out you do not have your head in the sand his liesI can not wrap my head around and what wrong with the followers that buy it sick, sick, sick or cult, cult, Ido not say this just to hurt but this is sick.
Thank you for your reply. Politicians ,I believe, are 4 things: salesmen, actors, fundraisers, and statesmen. They use all 4 roles and skills to achieve their power, some with good and some with ill intentions. Donald Trump is a very sick man, Borderline Personality Disorder is no laughing matter and we are all paying a heavy price for his mental illness. But again I have to remind myself his audience has been lied to, grifted upon, and manipulated for decates by the Republicans, he did not do this alone and still not enough is beind done to force their news sources to be honest and without that reckoning not much will change. But at the very least we can treat each other with kindness and respect above all else even if we vehemntly disagree with each other on political party affiliation.
You can address their concerns ("I get you're concerned about election fraud. But multiple cases were brought alleging election fraud and every single one, even those before Trump-appointed judges, found no validity to the fraud claims. So you shouldn't need to worry about that.") and they essentially just outright just refuse to believe basic reality, like judges decisions are available to be read.
Being Pollyanna-ish and saying all we need to do is smile at they and listen to their concerns while they stick their fingers in your ears and actively try to kill you is not going to work. You're choosing to ignore the problem exists is as self-delusional as their refusing to accept election results.
Respectfully I think I have a pretty clear not pie in the sky place to start like stop calling them stupid chucklefucks etc. I also cited Miles Law for you to get perspective which is essential to understand in depth before engaging in a discussion with anyone. Additionally keep in mind it takes time to build trust. Look up Sliding Door Moments from Dr John Gorman to understand why this takes time and patience. We did not get here overnight and we will not get out of this overnight. But we on our side of the political isle can tone down the name calling to start building trust and opening the doors to conversations. If our politicians won’t do it we have to.
Asking them questions in a non-challenging, interested way. Having them explain their view. And slowly watching them realize how non-sensical and self-contradictory they are.
At which point they either get really mad and storm off, or they start to hesitate and and actually start to think a bit before they answer. Either way, they've started to recognize that they're wrong.
“While only around 10-20 percent of Americans identify as QAnon adherents...”
The scariest thing about that sentence is the casualness with which “only” is used.
We’re getting (have been) normalized to the idea that a huge portion of Americans are flat out violently insane.
Personal responsibility. I'm going to haul out that age-old conservative mantra. One chooses to be ignorant. People who fall for cults are equally susceptible to any type of con. Here's the thing - along with the cult aspect, the other identifying feature for most all MAGA folk is faith. Even mainstream religion teaches that events are out of our control, that everything is in "God's hands." It is not.
They believe everything happens for a purpose, and that Trump has a divine purpose. Some worship the Republican party. If a person truly gives up all agency and autonomy on the premise that everything is out of human control, they have given up on the principles upon which the country was founded.
It is time to start calling these people traitors. They have made their decision.
Bob…..so good to read a post from you.
I believe the Gen Y and Z may be the answer. I believe they are more educated and include more women. I think they will not take the bs that is being handed to us from the Republicans. They seem to question things much more. I am an 80 year old….always voted Democrat , but 2 of my kids swing right. That being said, all of my grandkids except one, who takes immense pleasure out of buying me things like trump grass (i.e. Chia trump), are all seriously left leaning. They are the Gen Y and Gen Z voters. They are my hope for the future.
Gen Y and Z aren't the answer.
Sure, shifting demographics help, but we can't just sit around and wait for a generation to pass. Instead of looking for someone else to be there answer we need to be taking clear actions ourselves.
Gen Q. People who cling to age
This reminds me a little about a "controversy" in my profession - intelligent design. I'm sure it will rear its ugly head again in the future. I teach biology, formerly high school and now college. There was a huge push in some places to have intelligent design taught hand-in-hand with evolution in classrooms. That is, to give scientific validation to the idea we were specially created by God, by presenting (what we might now call) "alternative" facts to back up the biblical account of the Earth being 6,000 or so years old. No scientist in their right mind would consider teaching that to children because, of course, there is no evidence for the existence of God.
I've had college students attempt to debate me. Nope. There is no longer anything to debate. I direct students to YouTube to watch the debate between Bill Nye and Ken Ham. I also have a double-sided page with a bibliography of both scientific and more philosophical papers to read on the subject. If a student wants to read and debate those, they can do that during my office hours.
Even after covering evolution extensively in an undergrad (majors) biology course, I've still had students invite me to their church for saving. Even after covering what evolution is and is not, I always - always - stress that personal beliefs are part of being human, and that we need to respect those. But I know - can see it some people's eyes - that they don't believe a word of what I'm teaching them.
I am afraid that I favor the "incapable" explanation. If a person is indoctrinated like this from birth, taught that they have no control or capacity for their actions but to pray for guidance, taught that everything is either good or evil, with very strict definitions, taught that we are "better than" or "superior to" all other species. This is a recipe for disaster.
So, it is the age-old, "Put your faith in X and everything will be okay." This is so much easier for people than to contemplate reality. Let X take care of your problems. God, Trump, the Republican party. That's what's going on, and people believe it, especially if they've grown up with this worldview.
We've come to the point where people are choosing whether to continue America as we know it. It should be clear by now that many people believe in a founding of this country that simply is not true. They are not reading the Federalist Papers, much less the Constitution. Their grasp of history is what Republican politicians have told them. The Basket of Deplorables IS the Republican party now, and that basket has infected the followers.
The huge problem is that some smart people will start shopping around for a new country to live in. I'm serious. There are people who will assess the situation, decide that indeed this cult is poised to take over the U.S. Government - and simply leave. Once the brain drain begins, the country will slide quickly.
“Let X take care of your problems. God, Trump, the Republican party. That's what's going on, and people believe it, especially if they've grown up with this worldview.”
A worldview most highly visible among people who are white, upper middle class (or higher). Because their experience has largely been that things DO just work out for them.
To some extent it’s an understandable view. Everything in their lives has just worked out for them, so their experience tells them that that *IS* how the world works.
One would hope that pursuing a higher education would indicate an openness in their minds to recognizing that their experience is that for a fortunate minority.
Alas, as you see among your students, enrolling in college doesn’t indicate an interest in learning.
Here's the problem. The higher brain functions of logic, critical thinking, processing abstract concepts don't develop until age 16 at the earliest and they have to be triggered by something - higher education, travel, exposure to other cultures, something. Because of the decline in our schools, fewer people are developing those skills. We have a country full of people who take their religions literally, don't question authority, internalize racism, sexism & homophobia to the point that they don't see it and who can't tell a fact from an opinion.
They don't reason, they feel. They live in their Limbic System so they're tribal and suspicious of "other". The only way to reach them is for someone they admire lead them out of it. Liberals can't do it. We keep trying to reason with people functioning at the level of 15 year olds stuck in their mammalian or reptilian brains, both of which are pre-verbal and can't be reached with words. It takes someone familiar - a celebrity, country singer, politician they trust, clergy - to get past their indoctrination. Know anyone like that?
I don’t think anyone here is advising the stronger measures that are needed to disempower MAGA. We are sitting around wringing our hands and asking “but what do we do??” We know what we have to do. MAGA can never threaten this country again. If they win another national election, democracy in this country is OVER. Those are the stakes.
Gotta say, I like that phrase, “traditional cult”. Ah, for the good old days when cults only wanted to convert you to some oddball religion… 🤔😉😊
The reason MAGA Cult has such a hold on their base is easy to see -- GOD -- they've convinced the base that GOP = GOD and failure to completely bow down in blind faith will bar the flock from the gates of heaven. My relatives vocalize this daily. My mom (85) was convinced, failure to overturn Roe in her lifetime would banish her from heaven. It was her mission. So the best way to wedge between the con artists and the conned is to get the base to believe that hate-based politics goes against the teachings of Jesus and will in fact, banish the faithful to hell. Now, I personally don't believe in organized religion, the greatest con game of all time, but am willing to become the true voice of God if it helps deprogram the minions.
“hate-based politics goes against the teachings of Jesus”
You’d think would be so obvious that it wouldn’t even need to be said. But the actual fact is, reality is, that the vast majority of “Christians“ actively reject the teachings of Christ even as they claim (falsely, obviously) to follow them.
The "maga cult" is the exposed tip of the iceberg. As long as whyt people exclusively vote reich-publican, that yip will continue its journey to become the majority and not the fringe.
#GateKeepersofwhytsupremacy
Whyt?
white....sorry, my Twitter spelling....
Also vvhite....
Sorry I did not responded immediately. Yes political leader especially the the right do lie profusely everyday all day. What can you do when their base turn a blind eye to the lies? I thought I was being respectful because I could have said a lot more. Treating people that know these are lies with a kid glove does not help the matter that includes family. A lie is a lie, what they actually see is what is happening look at the lies and death Covid cause, there are no alternative facts and the truth is the truth whether it hurt there feelings or not.
Yes it is too late anytime you can not park your cars at his rallies because your cars are poor. Or when he lies to you he can not even look at you he look off to the side. You wait out in the elements for 2-3 days for a hate rally. If you have to be told what to believe what you see and hear there is no hope for you it time to fly them off to Guantanamo Bay with Fox propaganda Jihad network with the other terrorist. Or sue them out of existence. Will not happen with the spineless democrats and the fake LSM that afraid to ask a si ple correct question. We are doomed.
https://open.substack.com/pub/petertast/p/the-hollow-men?r=9qyzu&utm_medium=ios&utm_campaign=post
Many rubes succumbed to the gaslighting & hyperbole, but they don’t turn the channel because the assuaging message of bigotry is what they crave. No watering it down or the excusing dummies for just not knowing better. You yourself claim to not even try to inform ‘just to get along’ but mahgahs doesn’t want to co-exist with progress. Not once has that message been transmitted by GOP, Trump, Bannon, Beck, Hannity, et al. They double down on the lies hoping more rubes don’t notice actual freedom is being removed. Zero tolerance for bigots & traitors. Your rational is just capitulation because you are tired.
The opposite. Every reply I have made to you is about the need for conversations and adding information. It starts with respect and grows from there.
By the way, you try and defend Nazis in your post above.
Huh?
Sorry Bob. I think this reply was intended for me and the discussion Timothy and I are having. Thanks for this critical post Bob!
Try reading all the way thru, Bob
I assure you I am in no way defending the crimes and atrocities of the Nazis having lost hundreds of family members to the Holocaust and also having many uncles who fought in the American army during WWII.
All I am saying is they are often thought of us monsters and they were more than that. They were well educated and drank wine and read Goethe poetry and listened to Wagner music. So too MAGA are not stupid hillbillies and worse as they are described on Twitter all day long.
You're right that many are not stupid hillbillies. (Way to counter a stereotype by using a stereotype, BTW.)
Many in the MAGA (née Nazi) crowd are indeed well educated win drinking poetry readers. But whatever education, intelligence, and breeding they may have, their defining characteristic remains that they eagerly support lawlessness, the destruction of democracy, and the genocide of minorities.
Whatever "positive" attributes one may accurately ascribe to them, they are also monsters and that takes precedence. That "they are more than that" pales in comparison to irrelevance. "I'm not just a monster." is meaningless.
I implore you to spend one week watching their news sources and you will see why they think what they do. Miles Law says “Where you stand depends on where you sit.” Please sit in their chairs for a week and you will understand them as a group being lied to on a daily basis by their media sources and I think it will open your eyes a little bit to build bridges not walls with all of our fellow Americans.
I have watched Fox “News”, on several occasions. As I used to occasionally listen to Rush Limbaugh. I’d watch/listen until they told three blatantly obvious lies that would be blindingly apparent to any thinking person.
I never made it past five minutes.
I understand why you have unrelenting sympathy for the poor MAGA victims who have willingly accepted every lie they’ve been told. Your insistence that they are not responsible for their own actions and decisions, your refusal to acknowledge basic facts of actual reality is very similar to theirs.
I am relatively new to social media and have been on Twiter for just over a year. Daily, my feed calls MAGA followers STUPID, HILLBILLIES, WIERDOS, CULTISTS, and more.
On the news and on social media, I see a clear denominator of MAGA being referred to as “the other” – a group of Americans that is so vile, so hostile, so horrible, that it’s not even worth our time to speak to them or understand them.
With the recent arraignments and legal indictments against Donald Trump, and the arrests of his most ardent supporters from the January 6th insurrection, now seems to be the best time to extend an olive branch or two, or 200, to his MAGA supporters, and get to know who they are and how we can shorten the divide between American citizens. And if the politicians won’t do it for us, now is the time for us, every one of us, to do it ourselves. As Abraham Lincoln said, “government should do for people only what they cannot do better by themselves, and no more.”
"a group of Americans that is so vile, so hostile, so horrible, that it’s not even worth our time to speak to them or understand them."
There comes a point when you stop trying to reason with the person who is brandishing a knife at you. When you've tried, and their response is to just yell louder to drown you out and to start actually stabbing you the time for seeking common ground is over.
The MAGA crowd, the entire Republican party, and all who vote for them have made it clear that there is *nothing* that will get them return to reason. Not a violent attempted coup, not women dying from sepsis, not children being forced to carry their rapist's baby, not rampant corruption at the highest levels, the easily preventable deaths of hundreds of thousands of their fellow citizens, not taking toddlers from their mothers and putting them in cages, ...
We have "gotten to know who they are", and they are vile and beyond reason.
We cannot give up on them. We have more in common than you think. We cannot give up ever or we will remain so divided or worse. Now that FOX is being exposed and Trump is being held accountable is the best time for us to extend an olive branch or two or 200. Thank you for your reply. Have a great weekend.
Any time one of them wants to step forward and say “Y’know. I think I may have been going the wrong way.” I’ll be the first in line to talk with them to understand what their view was and whether it was mistaken. To work with them to find a way back, as one would help a recovering addict with compassion.
But as with an alcoholic or drug addict you cannot help those who refuse help, who are trying to burn down your house with you inside for daring to suggest they have a problem you can help with.
You keep insisting we need to just understand them. But we DO understand them. And that is why we recognize them as the highly dangerous people that they are and why we need to fight against them.
You can keep naively insisting we have to understand why they’re throwing the Molotovs through our windows. I’ll be spraying them with a firehose. The moment they put the Molotov down I’m willing to listen. But as long as they are launching them there is no conversation to be had.
Christopher, please watch this interview with a MAGA woman who barely escaped the Gaslighting. It is very powerful.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i6qsSqHpL4o
I never said none were redeemable. Only that your Pollyanna-ish belief that they all could be if we would just, touchy-feely, sing Kumbaya with people who not only refuse to sing but, in most cases literally, want to kill us during the chorus.
I said no such thing.
All I asked was to stand in their shoes for a moment or two or three.
All I asked was to stop the name calling on Twitter.
The Mawgawk are hateful, spiteful and outright prejudiced against the ‘other’. The so called movement has othered themselves as separatists, against progress and equality for all. The truth is the olive branch that’s always extended.
Respectfully I disagree. I personally know MAGA supporters, I’m even related to one. MAGA are our family, our friends, our neighbors, our co- workers, our doctors, our business owners, our teachers, our barber, our farmer, and so much more. With the people we are speaking about let’s remember that’s someone’s father or child, a fellow American who might have served his country or community, just like you or your family members.
They are not the other. They have been lied to and manipulated for decades and it is all being exposed now.
I see no olive branch. I see more hostility and attacks from the democrats calling them names which will further divide this county.
We need to speak to them respectfully and hear their pain and address their fears with not just one but hundreds of conversations. It starts with stopping calling them stupid. They are not. We’re the Nazis stupid. They had the highest rate of PHDs of any military in history.
If you label yourself as ‘MAGA’ you have already lost the debate. The best you can do is encourage cult members to read another source of info away from Fox, Bannon, Beck, Levin or Shapiro types as the disinformation is palpable.
No need to debate we need to have discussions and conversations and understand each other more and see each others pain. This cannot happen without the primer of respect. And respect starts by not calling them stupid. We must come together as a people before it is too late.
Understand that mahgah repeat fantasy as fact, fallacy as as infallibility and fascism as fun. You can’t debate delusional bigots.
They are not delusional. They are being lied to by their politicians and media. Hence the Dominion lawsuit and others. I work in IT and I would never blame a victim of a phishing scam. I would run to help them.
And whoever whatever the MAGA gang are what they believe it no excuse for there or his action it is sad how much he lies, he did cause Covid to excel with his nonsense. I hope your family didn’t use bleach or stick a light up wherever; wait for days for a hate rally and lastly have amnesia or just hear what you want to hear when you know it is a lie you seen it with your own eyes. Hillary was right if you follow a man that spew hate sorry my family member if they believe that mess could stay away for me and most of my family. My mom always said you can’t fix stupid and there no excuse to be stupid so much actual research out you do not have your head in the sand his liesI can not wrap my head around and what wrong with the followers that buy it sick, sick, sick or cult, cult, Ido not say this just to hurt but this is sick.
Thank you for your reply. Politicians ,I believe, are 4 things: salesmen, actors, fundraisers, and statesmen. They use all 4 roles and skills to achieve their power, some with good and some with ill intentions. Donald Trump is a very sick man, Borderline Personality Disorder is no laughing matter and we are all paying a heavy price for his mental illness. But again I have to remind myself his audience has been lied to, grifted upon, and manipulated for decates by the Republicans, he did not do this alone and still not enough is beind done to force their news sources to be honest and without that reckoning not much will change. But at the very least we can treat each other with kindness and respect above all else even if we vehemntly disagree with each other on political party affiliation.
"We need to speak to them respectfully and hear their pain and address their fears"
And when you do and they utterly reject reality? What then?
Seriously, how do you deal with a person like this one who (typical of MAGA folks) just utterly refuses to acknowledge reality? https://twitter.com/notcapnamerica/status/1681665456749391873
You can address their concerns ("I get you're concerned about election fraud. But multiple cases were brought alleging election fraud and every single one, even those before Trump-appointed judges, found no validity to the fraud claims. So you shouldn't need to worry about that.") and they essentially just outright just refuse to believe basic reality, like judges decisions are available to be read.
Being Pollyanna-ish and saying all we need to do is smile at they and listen to their concerns while they stick their fingers in your ears and actively try to kill you is not going to work. You're choosing to ignore the problem exists is as self-delusional as their refusing to accept election results.
Respectfully I think I have a pretty clear not pie in the sky place to start like stop calling them stupid chucklefucks etc. I also cited Miles Law for you to get perspective which is essential to understand in depth before engaging in a discussion with anyone. Additionally keep in mind it takes time to build trust. Look up Sliding Door Moments from Dr John Gorman to understand why this takes time and patience. We did not get here overnight and we will not get out of this overnight. But we on our side of the political isle can tone down the name calling to start building trust and opening the doors to conversations. If our politicians won’t do it we have to.
One qanon at a time being walked through the evidence in person
Asking them questions in a non-challenging, interested way. Having them explain their view. And slowly watching them realize how non-sensical and self-contradictory they are.
At which point they either get really mad and storm off, or they start to hesitate and and actually start to think a bit before they answer. Either way, they've started to recognize that they're wrong.