Ben, it’s not that you’re not a liberal anymore, it’s that they’re not, and perhaps never were. In an amusing, but perhaps sad way, they are making Bill Maher‘s case. I always thought that the people Maher complained about were a tiny minority of the progressive movement, and that his perspective was off. But that tiny minority has gotten really loud — and again, disproportionately so — lately. It’s not good for any of us. 🤔😉😊
Dont you think the real problem isnt “race”, it’s more about class, and social positions that can sometimes be purchased with enough cash .
During apartheid in South Africa, when only white europeans were full citizens, the country suddenly declared the Japanese to be white, so they could do business with the white South Africans. Not other Asians. Just the Japanese.
So much for race. In the US Im considered white, but not in France or Australia.
Its absurd!
The problem is really fractionalism.
Not too long ago in this country we were all Americans. Now we’re all hyphenates. Even white people have their little tribes. Its frustrating and counter-productive.
Also, I think what we see is that it isnt so much “left” or “right”. Its circular. Go too far in either direction and youre on the other side.
More like theres an extremist side and a centrist side of the circle.
Let’s keep fighting for the center. And I’ll still snuggle off toward the left of the circle. Girl can’t help it. Im still proud to be a progressive.
Ben, I've been forced to read Edward Said and Noam Chomsky in my college electives in the US, and both are manipulative propagandists. Edward Said, for one, is about as Palestinian as the pro Hamas kids born in California - the man didn't live in Palestine since childhood. He's one of the early academic Left idiots to support Hezbollah, that revolting antisemitic connection between the allegedly Marxist Left and far Right Islamists who openly desire a genocide of Jews - and in the case of Hezbollah have a track record of worldwide terrorism against Jews, not just Israelis.
I knew Chomsky was a full-of-shit propagandist since reading both “Manufacturing Consent” and A Fateful Triangle. The premise of Manufacturing Consent is laughable - there is such a huge diversity of media in the US, even when he wrote the book, that to think there's some conspiracy to indoctrinate people to be Conservative is deep projection. Everything the academic Left does is indoctrination, in the sphere where they have complete control over what is in the curriculum, and who gets hired. Just look at the statements of the academic Left and tell me there's anything other than deeply anti Zionist and antisemitic indoctrination in universities and high schools. Look at how news media in the West picks up Hamas propaganda and amplifies it without challenging it for facts. If there's any forced consent being attempted, it's by the Left trying to inject Palestinian concerns into every single cause they can latch onto - climate change activists making pro Hamas statements is an example of what decades of pro Palestinian propaganda does to the brain of Leftists.
In A Fateful Triangle Chomsky described a rocket attack by PLO on Israeli towns as some form of protest, and used the fact that nobody was killed as benign intent of the PLO. This same stupidity infects the Left today - holding Israel's deep investment in protecting its citizens and the relative lack of capability by Palestinian terrorists against Israel, as if more Palestinians dying is proof Israel is wrong, and not the war criminals of Hamas shooting rockets at civilians, including Palestinians, from behind Palestinian civilians - both war crimes. What Hamas has shown us on October 7 is that given the opportunity Palestinian death squads will massacre, torture and rape everyone they find on the Israeli side - paramedics, families, old people, babies, tourists, Thai, Nepalese and Palestinian farm workers, Jews, Arabs, family pets - anything and everyone they see. Hamas are nihilistic and genocidal and the Left is truly immoral and idiotic to search for ways to excuse their actions and help them survive at all costs ("ceasefire now").
I'm glad you're awake to how pathetically gullible progressives can be when it comes to Israel and Jews and the intent of Palestinians. Most of the far Left is deeply immoral, still.
A very interesting piece, thank you. As someone who grew up in the UK but has lived in Europe for the last fifteen years, the difference between politics in the Anglo Saxon world (and yes, I realise that there are, or at any rate were, vast differences between the US and the UK) and Europe is that whilst in Europe compromise is understood to be a necessary condition of progress, in the US and the UK it is more commonly seem as a sign of betrayal.
The MAGA represents too far Right Wing American politics and the Ultra Progressives represent the too far Left Wing American politics.
What is being driven out of both parties by divisive politics is the Moderate.
Considering how extremely right wing Trumplicans have moved the GOP it might be a reaction that the Ultra Left Wing is also pulling the DNC too the extreme left.
But is this permanent or just reaction?
Reminder, the American system is best when the politics stays centrist and doesn't swing too right or two left.
Fascism on the far right, Totalitarianism on the far left.
Hope is once done defeating the Trumplicans Fascism we don't end up in the far left Totalitarianism.
FYI. Marx is a failed Idiology and was fully exposed when it was written. Remember our Founders were compatriots of Marx and rejected his teaching then.
(((It makes everyone grey)))
(((No reason to be exceptional)))
Our Democratic Constitutional Republic has protected us from both the far right and far left.
There is no far Left? What universe are you living in exactly? The statements by Leftist academics, students, journalists, and artists in support of the Hamas' massacre are right there for you to see. The Left tearing down posters of kidnapped Israeli children is right there. The Left assaulting Jews leaving a screening of Hamas atrocities at LA's museum of Tolerance just happened.
There absolutely is a center - it's the liberal wing of the Democratic Party, and a small portion of the progressive caucus. There's also definitely a self-declared Democratic Socialist group of Democratic Party House representatives who are absolutely not the center.
Sorry, your dichotomy is idiotic, and most people reject it. The option is not between the far Right MAGA and the totalitarian identity synthesis Left. President Biden who is hated by the Left is exactly an example of center-Left.
You don’t need to read all that drivel to know garbage when you see it. The pure hate that spews out against Israel and Jews on elite campuses is proof of the moral rot.
I’m not sure I understand your point of saying identity politics is derailing the left and then immediately using identity politics as a way to condemn criticism of the Israeli state and American foreign policy. Furthermore, Marx and Chomsky offer structural critiques based upon class and one’s position in relation to capital rather than racial identity.
I get it, there is an endless supply of insufferable takes that center race, victimhood and oppression by a racist oppressor over an attempt to talk about changing the structures that we interface with on a daily basis. You want to find the left, then go to a union meeting.
I'm condemning criticism of the Israeli state? Really? I've explicitly stated on many occasions I am appalled by the Israeli state's treatment of Palestinians. I'm criticizing the identity politics left's disgusting reaction to the death of 1,300 innocent Israelis and their increasingly deranged philosophy that has resulted in over racism towards Jews.
Three removed (banned comments.) All other comments are agreeing with you. Weird? Maybe the Left that is in danger of becoming what it hates, is the Left that is banning and removing the comments??
The commenter wasn't adding to the conversation, just posting clown face memes instead of replies. She's blocked for 24 hours, not forever. I mean, I posted reader dissent in the piece itself, so I think it's clear I'm not trying to censor opinions I don't like.
I read similarly, went to the Chomsky movie where he was revered like a God, soaked up his words. Then he disappeared from my life until resurfacing after Russia invaded Ukraine. Suddenly he was being mocked and ridiculed by the internet tribe I hang out with. Or hung out with.
I don’t think race, identity, or religion, are any longer suitable grounds to establish biases, resentments, ideological positions or oppositions. But old habits die hard. Just as Russia invaded Ukraine in a throwback to the imperial world, violating all modern conceptions. Islamism too, fearful of consignment to history, rears it’s horrific head. This may be a millennial project.
Well said, Ben. The lesson that's only be reinforced for me with all of this relates to the dangers of subscribing to a tribe. I subscribe to ideas of classical liberalism, pluralism, and openness and the reality is no tribe will ever fully be guided by those ideas (kind of goes back to the whole point of needing an "other" to define your tribe).
Having said that, it is also true that tribalism is in many ways a prerequisite for mobilization for political causes so we find ourself in a bit of conundrum. I try to navigate this landscape by never fully emotionally committing to any tribe but remaining active/engaged in my political expression at critical moments like elections, because ultimately we have to choose a side when in the poll booth and elections have real consequences. And as long as the MAGA movement and its outsized rejection of science, liberalism, pluralism, and openness (not to mention fundamental acceptance of core civic principles like honoring election results and respect for law & order) have a stranglehold on the right, I cannot consider voting that direction. The left fringe, as frustrating as it can be, does not have the same hold on its tribe and isn't universally anti-democratic/liberal, even if occasionally tipping that way. Recognizing that doesn't make me a tribal lefty because its grounded in values I see essential for our thriving and survival. And as long as I don't join the tribe, I don't have to worry about calling it out or buying the whole soup, which can occasionally be quite poisonous (as we are seeing in many of the moral equations related to the Israeli/Palestinian conflict).
Thanks very much Adam - I agree entirely. The right in America is, I believe, beyond redemption at this point. In the UK I would consider voting Tory under certain circumstances (say in opposition to Jeremy Corbyn), but never in America.
There is only the left or there is no such thing, as opposed to trumpian mahgah pro-fafa righties. The issues get diluted when labeks of ‘left, progressive, moderate’ are slapped on what used to be considered liberty & freedom from oppression.
I’m a student who has recently come back from a solo trip to front line Ukraine. I’ve just published a new piece on my experiences and thought readers here may appreciate it. Please do see what you think. https://irongoose.substack.com/
You can keep repeating as many times as you want that there is no far left, and each time you will still be wrong. The policies you are naming here are those that are popular among most Americans, including even some republican citizens, even though their representatives will do nothing to help enact these policies. True progressives do not support Hamas as a legitimate entity, and do not post images on Twitter of a hang glider descending upon innocent Israeli civilians with the intention of butchering them. But that’s what the far left does. Get a grip on reality.
Thank you. I despise Donald Trump and everything he stands for; and the extremes of his base are beyond redemption. But you don't see any "MAGA" hats in the pro-Hamas marches. It's entirely the far Left .. which seems to be much larger than a fringe now.
I am beyond dismayed by this element on the left that seems to think it’s just fine to support a terrorist organization that has broken every ceasefire between themselves and Israel. It doesn’t make any sense, and it reeks of antisemitism. It’s one thing to support the Palestinians’ right to a homeland and to live in peace, or to criticize Netanyahu‘s draconian policies; it’s another thing to cheer on the death of innocent civilians and children. It’s sickens me, and it is MAGA-like in the sense that it’s a form of blind hatred.
Ben, it’s not that you’re not a liberal anymore, it’s that they’re not, and perhaps never were. In an amusing, but perhaps sad way, they are making Bill Maher‘s case. I always thought that the people Maher complained about were a tiny minority of the progressive movement, and that his perspective was off. But that tiny minority has gotten really loud — and again, disproportionately so — lately. It’s not good for any of us. 🤔😉😊
Excellent and beautifully presented
Dont you think the real problem isnt “race”, it’s more about class, and social positions that can sometimes be purchased with enough cash .
During apartheid in South Africa, when only white europeans were full citizens, the country suddenly declared the Japanese to be white, so they could do business with the white South Africans. Not other Asians. Just the Japanese.
So much for race. In the US Im considered white, but not in France or Australia.
Its absurd!
The problem is really fractionalism.
Not too long ago in this country we were all Americans. Now we’re all hyphenates. Even white people have their little tribes. Its frustrating and counter-productive.
Also, I think what we see is that it isnt so much “left” or “right”. Its circular. Go too far in either direction and youre on the other side.
More like theres an extremist side and a centrist side of the circle.
Let’s keep fighting for the center. And I’ll still snuggle off toward the left of the circle. Girl can’t help it. Im still proud to be a progressive.
Well said!
Ben, I've been forced to read Edward Said and Noam Chomsky in my college electives in the US, and both are manipulative propagandists. Edward Said, for one, is about as Palestinian as the pro Hamas kids born in California - the man didn't live in Palestine since childhood. He's one of the early academic Left idiots to support Hezbollah, that revolting antisemitic connection between the allegedly Marxist Left and far Right Islamists who openly desire a genocide of Jews - and in the case of Hezbollah have a track record of worldwide terrorism against Jews, not just Israelis.
I knew Chomsky was a full-of-shit propagandist since reading both “Manufacturing Consent” and A Fateful Triangle. The premise of Manufacturing Consent is laughable - there is such a huge diversity of media in the US, even when he wrote the book, that to think there's some conspiracy to indoctrinate people to be Conservative is deep projection. Everything the academic Left does is indoctrination, in the sphere where they have complete control over what is in the curriculum, and who gets hired. Just look at the statements of the academic Left and tell me there's anything other than deeply anti Zionist and antisemitic indoctrination in universities and high schools. Look at how news media in the West picks up Hamas propaganda and amplifies it without challenging it for facts. If there's any forced consent being attempted, it's by the Left trying to inject Palestinian concerns into every single cause they can latch onto - climate change activists making pro Hamas statements is an example of what decades of pro Palestinian propaganda does to the brain of Leftists.
In A Fateful Triangle Chomsky described a rocket attack by PLO on Israeli towns as some form of protest, and used the fact that nobody was killed as benign intent of the PLO. This same stupidity infects the Left today - holding Israel's deep investment in protecting its citizens and the relative lack of capability by Palestinian terrorists against Israel, as if more Palestinians dying is proof Israel is wrong, and not the war criminals of Hamas shooting rockets at civilians, including Palestinians, from behind Palestinian civilians - both war crimes. What Hamas has shown us on October 7 is that given the opportunity Palestinian death squads will massacre, torture and rape everyone they find on the Israeli side - paramedics, families, old people, babies, tourists, Thai, Nepalese and Palestinian farm workers, Jews, Arabs, family pets - anything and everyone they see. Hamas are nihilistic and genocidal and the Left is truly immoral and idiotic to search for ways to excuse their actions and help them survive at all costs ("ceasefire now").
I'm glad you're awake to how pathetically gullible progressives can be when it comes to Israel and Jews and the intent of Palestinians. Most of the far Left is deeply immoral, still.
A very interesting piece, thank you. As someone who grew up in the UK but has lived in Europe for the last fifteen years, the difference between politics in the Anglo Saxon world (and yes, I realise that there are, or at any rate were, vast differences between the US and the UK) and Europe is that whilst in Europe compromise is understood to be a necessary condition of progress, in the US and the UK it is more commonly seem as a sign of betrayal.
Today the axle that squeals the loudest gets the media. That is capitalism in action.
The noise from the right is mega decibels louder. It is all clickbait. As for the Democrats, the Wests and Greens pose more of a problem.
The MAGA represents too far Right Wing American politics and the Ultra Progressives represent the too far Left Wing American politics.
What is being driven out of both parties by divisive politics is the Moderate.
Considering how extremely right wing Trumplicans have moved the GOP it might be a reaction that the Ultra Left Wing is also pulling the DNC too the extreme left.
But is this permanent or just reaction?
Reminder, the American system is best when the politics stays centrist and doesn't swing too right or two left.
Fascism on the far right, Totalitarianism on the far left.
Hope is once done defeating the Trumplicans Fascism we don't end up in the far left Totalitarianism.
FYI. Marx is a failed Idiology and was fully exposed when it was written. Remember our Founders were compatriots of Marx and rejected his teaching then.
(((It makes everyone grey)))
(((No reason to be exceptional)))
Our Democratic Constitutional Republic has protected us from both the far right and far left.
Let's make sure it continues too.
The DNC is NOT RADICAL. THE FAR LEFT REJECTS US DEMS
You are extremely confused.
There is no far Left? What universe are you living in exactly? The statements by Leftist academics, students, journalists, and artists in support of the Hamas' massacre are right there for you to see. The Left tearing down posters of kidnapped Israeli children is right there. The Left assaulting Jews leaving a screening of Hamas atrocities at LA's museum of Tolerance just happened.
There absolutely is a center - it's the liberal wing of the Democratic Party, and a small portion of the progressive caucus. There's also definitely a self-declared Democratic Socialist group of Democratic Party House representatives who are absolutely not the center.
Sorry, your dichotomy is idiotic, and most people reject it. The option is not between the far Right MAGA and the totalitarian identity synthesis Left. President Biden who is hated by the Left is exactly an example of center-Left.
You don’t need to read all that drivel to know garbage when you see it. The pure hate that spews out against Israel and Jews on elite campuses is proof of the moral rot.
I’m not sure I understand your point of saying identity politics is derailing the left and then immediately using identity politics as a way to condemn criticism of the Israeli state and American foreign policy. Furthermore, Marx and Chomsky offer structural critiques based upon class and one’s position in relation to capital rather than racial identity.
I get it, there is an endless supply of insufferable takes that center race, victimhood and oppression by a racist oppressor over an attempt to talk about changing the structures that we interface with on a daily basis. You want to find the left, then go to a union meeting.
I'm condemning criticism of the Israeli state? Really? I've explicitly stated on many occasions I am appalled by the Israeli state's treatment of Palestinians. I'm criticizing the identity politics left's disgusting reaction to the death of 1,300 innocent Israelis and their increasingly deranged philosophy that has resulted in over racism towards Jews.
Three removed (banned comments.) All other comments are agreeing with you. Weird? Maybe the Left that is in danger of becoming what it hates, is the Left that is banning and removing the comments??
The commenter wasn't adding to the conversation, just posting clown face memes instead of replies. She's blocked for 24 hours, not forever. I mean, I posted reader dissent in the piece itself, so I think it's clear I'm not trying to censor opinions I don't like.
"After the terrorist attacks on October 7th however, several friends reached out to see if I was OK. All of them were black."
This is heartening. According to Facebook, I have around 400 "friends." As of today, three have reached out in response to October 7.
I read similarly, went to the Chomsky movie where he was revered like a God, soaked up his words. Then he disappeared from my life until resurfacing after Russia invaded Ukraine. Suddenly he was being mocked and ridiculed by the internet tribe I hang out with. Or hung out with.
I don’t think race, identity, or religion, are any longer suitable grounds to establish biases, resentments, ideological positions or oppositions. But old habits die hard. Just as Russia invaded Ukraine in a throwback to the imperial world, violating all modern conceptions. Islamism too, fearful of consignment to history, rears it’s horrific head. This may be a millennial project.
But you said it Ben, nuance.
Well said, Ben. The lesson that's only be reinforced for me with all of this relates to the dangers of subscribing to a tribe. I subscribe to ideas of classical liberalism, pluralism, and openness and the reality is no tribe will ever fully be guided by those ideas (kind of goes back to the whole point of needing an "other" to define your tribe).
Having said that, it is also true that tribalism is in many ways a prerequisite for mobilization for political causes so we find ourself in a bit of conundrum. I try to navigate this landscape by never fully emotionally committing to any tribe but remaining active/engaged in my political expression at critical moments like elections, because ultimately we have to choose a side when in the poll booth and elections have real consequences. And as long as the MAGA movement and its outsized rejection of science, liberalism, pluralism, and openness (not to mention fundamental acceptance of core civic principles like honoring election results and respect for law & order) have a stranglehold on the right, I cannot consider voting that direction. The left fringe, as frustrating as it can be, does not have the same hold on its tribe and isn't universally anti-democratic/liberal, even if occasionally tipping that way. Recognizing that doesn't make me a tribal lefty because its grounded in values I see essential for our thriving and survival. And as long as I don't join the tribe, I don't have to worry about calling it out or buying the whole soup, which can occasionally be quite poisonous (as we are seeing in many of the moral equations related to the Israeli/Palestinian conflict).
Keep up the good work!
Thanks very much Adam - I agree entirely. The right in America is, I believe, beyond redemption at this point. In the UK I would consider voting Tory under certain circumstances (say in opposition to Jeremy Corbyn), but never in America.
There is only the left or there is no such thing, as opposed to trumpian mahgah pro-fafa righties. The issues get diluted when labeks of ‘left, progressive, moderate’ are slapped on what used to be considered liberty & freedom from oppression.
I’m a student who has recently come back from a solo trip to front line Ukraine. I’ve just published a new piece on my experiences and thought readers here may appreciate it. Please do see what you think. https://irongoose.substack.com/
You can keep repeating as many times as you want that there is no far left, and each time you will still be wrong. The policies you are naming here are those that are popular among most Americans, including even some republican citizens, even though their representatives will do nothing to help enact these policies. True progressives do not support Hamas as a legitimate entity, and do not post images on Twitter of a hang glider descending upon innocent Israeli civilians with the intention of butchering them. But that’s what the far left does. Get a grip on reality.
Thank you. I despise Donald Trump and everything he stands for; and the extremes of his base are beyond redemption. But you don't see any "MAGA" hats in the pro-Hamas marches. It's entirely the far Left .. which seems to be much larger than a fringe now.
I am beyond dismayed by this element on the left that seems to think it’s just fine to support a terrorist organization that has broken every ceasefire between themselves and Israel. It doesn’t make any sense, and it reeks of antisemitism. It’s one thing to support the Palestinians’ right to a homeland and to live in peace, or to criticize Netanyahu‘s draconian policies; it’s another thing to cheer on the death of innocent civilians and children. It’s sickens me, and it is MAGA-like in the sense that it’s a form of blind hatred.
It’s always seemed an odd phenomenon that progressive policies tend to be much more popular than progressive politicians.🤔😉😊
The level of tolerance and self-awareness shown by most “progressives” is illuminating.