Although I'm not a believer myself, it's always bothered me how Unchristian (according to what I learned in Sunday school growing up) these outspoken political "Christians" are. I've noticed the hypocrisy since I was about 12. I guess that contributed to my own atheism. Thanks for this post.
Well shit. I’d started thinking of myself as a “cultural Christian” a while back to acknowledge how things like a gospel of love and having gratitude influenced me in a positive way during my Christian upbringing. That I’d keep those habits despite not believing all the supernatural mumbo jumbo, and leaving behind all the horrors also present in the Bible.
Those assholes really have to ruin everything, don’t they?
The way you describe it Michelle, was my first thought - do all the good works of Christ without the trappings of religion/faith. But no, as you say, the assholes ruin everything - for everyone
I followed the link and read Rebecca Watson's article. As she got to the part where she quoted Dawkins I thought "This is the paragraph that's going to trash my respect for Dawkins, isn't it?"
Yup.
That someone with so much analytical brainpower can be so idiotic, who can be so perceptive in his writing is so UNself-aware is staggering.
I bowed out JUST before that happened and missed literally all of it. I looked back in three or four years later and it was a dumpster fire of misogyny. WTAF?
Excellent exposé, thanks Ogre. I gave up on NA early bc it didn’t fit with my morality. Christian anything is hypocrisy of the highest form, more so than political hypocrisy, it preys on your faith in the afterlife. The faith they brainwashed into you in the first place. So happy to have my wits about me, separating the sense from nonsense, living my real life now.
I was actually totally on Ben’s side with the United Healthcare thing (while understanding the anger that led some people like Justin to praise the shooter) but I hope it’s not bad blood over that incident and their reaction that has seen Justin to be fired, I Hope he’s just left cos Opinionated Ogre is doing well
Yes cultural christianity makes slightly more sense if, whilst not accepting that you need his salvation, you adopt the behaviour of christ. The behaviour of Christ is pretty much all recorded in one place. Its pretty unambiguous. Groping women, fraud and dehumanising people are not parts of the repertoire.
It takes a special kind of asshole to renounce the spiritual parts of the Bible but keep the patriarchy, not because they believe it’s the word of God, but because they don’t need an ancient text to justify their hatred for women, they do it for the love of the sport.
Never did I say “Christ hates women”, I said that the Bible establishes the patriarchy. Did you not know that men have been using the Bible as justification for oppressing them for as long as the book’s been around? Yeah, the Bible is *kinda* bad for women. Also did you actually think that the Bible is a book that Jesus sat down and wrote? No, he did not. His actions through the words of others do not paint him as someone who hated women but many of the writers certainly did. If any of this is news to you then you have successfully cranked your willful ignorance up to 11.
I described myself as such... father a priest, mother an evangelist, went to christian schools, lived in a country where cities are made by the building of cathedrals... saw why some people who cared about me would hand down to me the story of someone who cared about everyone..against all the odds.
But we retreat in our wealth and rationality...from conviction..and hand the cloak and the flag to those whose only real belief is in money.
I was born into a Christian cult and love celebrating Christmas. I was raised strongly Christian, but never believed in any of it, and always got in trouble for asking questions.
I majored in a few things, but I did my dissertation for my English literature degree on the philology of the Bible, with particular focus on The Old English Bible compared to other Bibles/books, and Western Christian social movements (particularly those in the Dark Ages and Renaissance).
I’ve also always volunteered, and am a socialist - just like Jesus. But I vehemently oppose Jesus’ beliefs on slavery and upholding the laws of the Old Testament.
And I’ve read the Quran and Hadith many times. I’m a big fan of Aisha’s Hadith. Aisha is without a doubt my favourite person in the entirety of Islamic holy scripture (sorry Shias - but you’re cool, too). And I think headscarves are pretty. Wouldn’t want to wear them all the time, though, as they are bad for your hair and make you go bald, as with any headwear worn perpetually. And I am fascinated by Islamic history - by all Abrahamic religious history, and I include within that now dead Mesopotamian and Ancient Sumerian religions which inspired the still surviving Abrahamic religions around today. In fact, really, I have a massive interest in all religions. It’s just a thing with me.
I also read the Baghavad Gita.
I fully admire The Satanic Temple.
I think Buddhism is interesting except for the monks molesting kids thing and the Buddhists killing Muslims thing - but monks molest kids in all religions and all religious people hate people of other religions.
The Church of Satan are a bit weird, though, with all of their magick, and narcissistic bullshit.
But The Satanic Temple are 100% more ethical than any Christian - and their Ten Commandments are far better than the Christian commandments, too. The Church of Satan’s commandments are better than the Christian ones, but that’s a pretty low bar. They still suck. The Satanic Temple all the way!
So really, I suppose that you could say I am a humanist who is culturally a Satanic Jewish Christian Sunni Shia Muslim Hindu Buddhist who Culturally worships the Greek, Egyptian, and Mesopotamian pantheon of polytheistic gods.
As a Christian I’m not even mad abt this I’m sad. If Jesus came back he would be saying the same shit he said last time only exasperated bc he told our asses abt ourselves the last time…so it makes sense that folks latch on the the Christianity without the Christ
Although I'm not a believer myself, it's always bothered me how Unchristian (according to what I learned in Sunday school growing up) these outspoken political "Christians" are. I've noticed the hypocrisy since I was about 12. I guess that contributed to my own atheism. Thanks for this post.
Well shit. I’d started thinking of myself as a “cultural Christian” a while back to acknowledge how things like a gospel of love and having gratitude influenced me in a positive way during my Christian upbringing. That I’d keep those habits despite not believing all the supernatural mumbo jumbo, and leaving behind all the horrors also present in the Bible.
Those assholes really have to ruin everything, don’t they?
The way you describe it Michelle, was my first thought - do all the good works of Christ without the trappings of religion/faith. But no, as you say, the assholes ruin everything - for everyone
Dawkins and the muskrat aren’t cultural Christians, they’re Pharisees without the knowledge of historical Pharisees. Uncultured Pharisees.
Man. I knew Dawkins was full of it. Vindicated.
I followed the link and read Rebecca Watson's article. As she got to the part where she quoted Dawkins I thought "This is the paragraph that's going to trash my respect for Dawkins, isn't it?"
Yup.
That someone with so much analytical brainpower can be so idiotic, who can be so perceptive in his writing is so UNself-aware is staggering.
I bowed out JUST before that happened and missed literally all of it. I looked back in three or four years later and it was a dumpster fire of misogyny. WTAF?
I read the New Atheists back in the day and something about Dawkins tone, for lack of a better word, always bugged me. Thanks for this essay.
Cultural Christian? Sounds like he’s just another asshole.
Same! See my other Note td
“Christian atheist”—they need to get out of here with the BS!!
Excellent exposé, thanks Ogre. I gave up on NA early bc it didn’t fit with my morality. Christian anything is hypocrisy of the highest form, more so than political hypocrisy, it preys on your faith in the afterlife. The faith they brainwashed into you in the first place. So happy to have my wits about me, separating the sense from nonsense, living my real life now.
Sorry if I missed it but why is Justin leaving?
I was actually totally on Ben’s side with the United Healthcare thing (while understanding the anger that led some people like Justin to praise the shooter) but I hope it’s not bad blood over that incident and their reaction that has seen Justin to be fired, I Hope he’s just left cos Opinionated Ogre is doing well
Nah, I was leaving before the CEO was Luigied. My personal circumstances have changed and I have to do the OO newsletter fulltime now.
"It’s quite literally what I try to do with my writing, give you, my beloved audience, the vocabulary to rail agains the evils of this world."
So that's what all those four-letter Ogre words are for!
That, and to give people the courage to actually say, "Fuck you, you fucking fascist." :)
And you do. Don't ever doubt the power of setting an example.
Yes cultural christianity makes slightly more sense if, whilst not accepting that you need his salvation, you adopt the behaviour of christ. The behaviour of Christ is pretty much all recorded in one place. Its pretty unambiguous. Groping women, fraud and dehumanising people are not parts of the repertoire.
Made some ripples though...
It takes a special kind of asshole to renounce the spiritual parts of the Bible but keep the patriarchy, not because they believe it’s the word of God, but because they don’t need an ancient text to justify their hatred for women, they do it for the love of the sport.
Although im not sure where the bits are in the bible where Christ hates women.
Never did I say “Christ hates women”, I said that the Bible establishes the patriarchy. Did you not know that men have been using the Bible as justification for oppressing them for as long as the book’s been around? Yeah, the Bible is *kinda* bad for women. Also did you actually think that the Bible is a book that Jesus sat down and wrote? No, he did not. His actions through the words of others do not paint him as someone who hated women but many of the writers certainly did. If any of this is news to you then you have successfully cranked your willful ignorance up to 11.
I described myself as such... father a priest, mother an evangelist, went to christian schools, lived in a country where cities are made by the building of cathedrals... saw why some people who cared about me would hand down to me the story of someone who cared about everyone..against all the odds.
But we retreat in our wealth and rationality...from conviction..and hand the cloak and the flag to those whose only real belief is in money.
Dawkins is also anti-trans, as in “men can’t be women” and “sex (and gender)is biologically determined at birth.” Disappointingly ignorant.
I was born into a Christian cult and love celebrating Christmas. I was raised strongly Christian, but never believed in any of it, and always got in trouble for asking questions.
I majored in a few things, but I did my dissertation for my English literature degree on the philology of the Bible, with particular focus on The Old English Bible compared to other Bibles/books, and Western Christian social movements (particularly those in the Dark Ages and Renaissance).
I’ve also always volunteered, and am a socialist - just like Jesus. But I vehemently oppose Jesus’ beliefs on slavery and upholding the laws of the Old Testament.
And I’ve read the Quran and Hadith many times. I’m a big fan of Aisha’s Hadith. Aisha is without a doubt my favourite person in the entirety of Islamic holy scripture (sorry Shias - but you’re cool, too). And I think headscarves are pretty. Wouldn’t want to wear them all the time, though, as they are bad for your hair and make you go bald, as with any headwear worn perpetually. And I am fascinated by Islamic history - by all Abrahamic religious history, and I include within that now dead Mesopotamian and Ancient Sumerian religions which inspired the still surviving Abrahamic religions around today. In fact, really, I have a massive interest in all religions. It’s just a thing with me.
I also read the Baghavad Gita.
I fully admire The Satanic Temple.
I think Buddhism is interesting except for the monks molesting kids thing and the Buddhists killing Muslims thing - but monks molest kids in all religions and all religious people hate people of other religions.
The Church of Satan are a bit weird, though, with all of their magick, and narcissistic bullshit.
But The Satanic Temple are 100% more ethical than any Christian - and their Ten Commandments are far better than the Christian commandments, too. The Church of Satan’s commandments are better than the Christian ones, but that’s a pretty low bar. They still suck. The Satanic Temple all the way!
So really, I suppose that you could say I am a humanist who is culturally a Satanic Jewish Christian Sunni Shia Muslim Hindu Buddhist who Culturally worships the Greek, Egyptian, and Mesopotamian pantheon of polytheistic gods.
But mainly I’m just an atheist.
Happy Holidays everyone!
As a Christian I’m not even mad abt this I’m sad. If Jesus came back he would be saying the same shit he said last time only exasperated bc he told our asses abt ourselves the last time…so it makes sense that folks latch on the the Christianity without the Christ