Hey everyone, we usually reserve these chat threads for members, but given the gravity of the current situation in Ukraine we thought it would be good to open up our chat thread to everyone.
We’d love to hear your opinions on what is happening with Russia and Ukraine. Why has Putin chosen to invade now? What should Biden’s reaction be? Also, this Tweet from James Fallows was particularly interesting:
—Oct 1956, Soviet tanks roll into Hungary;
—Aug 1961, Soviets build Berlin Wall;
—Aug 1968, Soviet tanks roll into Czech;
—Feb 2022, Russia strikes Ukraine. In every case US prez (DDE, JFK, LBJ, Biden) knew US would not go into combat against nuclear power.
But in all those cases, US + allies looked for other ways to respond, and to exact a price. And in none of those other cases, as best I know, did US have prominent apologists for USSR action, comparable to Trump / Carlson these days.
Let us know your thoughts below.
- Ben
NOTE: You can now get a 2 month free trial on a Banter Membership. You’ll get access to chat threads, exclusive podcasts, members only posts, and our letters to the Editor feature!
From the beginning there have always been sympathizers to adversaries, just not as bodly open about it as they are today. That may be credited to the instant communications mediums used today and the financial competitiveness involved. Carlson's motives are primarily ratings and job security. Trump is nothing but a tool who will compromise anything for his own comfort. There was a time a Trump would not have been paid attention to and a Carlson would be liable for FCC violations as a threat to public safety, malice and slander. The support for Putin within the government and the public is truly, a serious problem that must be addressed. Appears we have a situation of reverse McCarthyism. The Trump and Carlson culture can be made to be accountable.
The question is how many adults are left in the Republican party. The house will tilt towards Putin's stooge, but the senate has always housed the adults. What does McConnell do? Does Graham golf with Trump and don a ushanka to make Trump happy?
The US is open to propaganda from Facebook, twitter, Fox "News" etc. This opening allows bad players to manipulate voters with lies and distortions of the truth. Our cable companies force their customers to foot the bill for Fox "News", OAN, and other disreputable sources of "news" instead letting them be market-driven by advertisers or by subscription. Let them have freedom of speech, just don't make us foot the bill. Their audiences would be much smaller if they were held accountable by advertisers and by subscribers. If we don't fight back against these planned, deliberate attacks on reality and the truth we are going to lose democracy to those who game our systems, including our voting systems. The only defense I have is to disagree on Facebook when I see false information presented as fact. It is common human nature to avoid confrontation but we must fight against lies that misled voters. Otherwise we will be living under a puppet government that tramples on our rights to self-determination. Imagine Jim Jordan being the Attorney General. He could ignore many more unjust things. Imagine Ron DeSantis being President if an Ebola outbreak took hold in the US. Not likely he would use science to protect us. If we don't take a stand and fight back we will lost democracy. It could happen as soon as the mid-term elections in 2022, or the federal elections in 2024. Keep your ears open and fight for democracy!
Never in the history of tyrannical evil murderous invading fucks has a "Putin" had such powerful operatives to inject its hotshot mindfuckery and propaganda right into the veins of America as Trump, Fox News (Carlson, Ingraham, Hannity et al.) and the whole pathetic plethora of MAGA, and pathetic Trumpist GOP cowards.
During WW2 America knew about what was happening to Jews and others and twiddled their thumbs. And yes, the west abandoned Eastern Europe after war, in the 50s and 60s, practically in the Balkans and now Ukraine. We missed a chance with Gorbachev and Yeltsin and never should have trusted the murderer Putin. Once KGB always KGB. I'm disgusted with the Republicans AND Democrats. No excuse for Trump and Fox - half the US will follow them no matter what, and you can't reason with them. Though look at the UK. What did they do after the Litvinenko and Novichok poisonings? Nothing. A British citizen died and a policeman and two others almost did. That and Putin taking over the Crimea should have been a huge wake up call to the west. NATO should have started preparing in the Baltics because they will be next. Biden and Harris are disappointingly useless. Afghanistan. Total disaster. Biden cared nothing about the women there. Watch the clip of him and read the Atlantic article. Of course, neither does Trump and his ilk. Just like they care nothing about Ukraine or anybody except themselves. Not letting Ukraine into NATO had more to do with the US being afraid of Putin than Ukraine's government. The US convinced them to give up their nuclear weapons and now have deserted them. It's all about the money. The far-right is dangerous and so is the far-left. If the Democrats don't wise up, they're going to lose in 2024.
What should we do? its a matter for a coalition, not us. We could lead it, but there are many organizations that are supposed to check this, often explicitly and directly like NATO or the UN. If they dont react proactively at this poinf, they are a joke. We cant use this dangerous moment and let it another sales op for the war machine. It always has, in conflict or without. Thats also why its vital to act as a group. Because he wont stop and sanctions only go so far.
From the beginning there have always been sympathizers to adversaries, just not as bodly open about it as they are today. That may be credited to the instant communications mediums used today and the financial competitiveness involved. Carlson's motives are primarily ratings and job security. Trump is nothing but a tool who will compromise anything for his own comfort. There was a time a Trump would not have been paid attention to and a Carlson would be liable for FCC violations as a threat to public safety, malice and slander. The support for Putin within the government and the public is truly, a serious problem that must be addressed. Appears we have a situation of reverse McCarthyism. The Trump and Carlson culture can be made to be accountable.
The question is how many adults are left in the Republican party. The house will tilt towards Putin's stooge, but the senate has always housed the adults. What does McConnell do? Does Graham golf with Trump and don a ushanka to make Trump happy?
The US is open to propaganda from Facebook, twitter, Fox "News" etc. This opening allows bad players to manipulate voters with lies and distortions of the truth. Our cable companies force their customers to foot the bill for Fox "News", OAN, and other disreputable sources of "news" instead letting them be market-driven by advertisers or by subscription. Let them have freedom of speech, just don't make us foot the bill. Their audiences would be much smaller if they were held accountable by advertisers and by subscribers. If we don't fight back against these planned, deliberate attacks on reality and the truth we are going to lose democracy to those who game our systems, including our voting systems. The only defense I have is to disagree on Facebook when I see false information presented as fact. It is common human nature to avoid confrontation but we must fight against lies that misled voters. Otherwise we will be living under a puppet government that tramples on our rights to self-determination. Imagine Jim Jordan being the Attorney General. He could ignore many more unjust things. Imagine Ron DeSantis being President if an Ebola outbreak took hold in the US. Not likely he would use science to protect us. If we don't take a stand and fight back we will lost democracy. It could happen as soon as the mid-term elections in 2022, or the federal elections in 2024. Keep your ears open and fight for democracy!
Never in the history of tyrannical evil murderous invading fucks has a "Putin" had such powerful operatives to inject its hotshot mindfuckery and propaganda right into the veins of America as Trump, Fox News (Carlson, Ingraham, Hannity et al.) and the whole pathetic plethora of MAGA, and pathetic Trumpist GOP cowards.
During WW2 America knew about what was happening to Jews and others and twiddled their thumbs. And yes, the west abandoned Eastern Europe after war, in the 50s and 60s, practically in the Balkans and now Ukraine. We missed a chance with Gorbachev and Yeltsin and never should have trusted the murderer Putin. Once KGB always KGB. I'm disgusted with the Republicans AND Democrats. No excuse for Trump and Fox - half the US will follow them no matter what, and you can't reason with them. Though look at the UK. What did they do after the Litvinenko and Novichok poisonings? Nothing. A British citizen died and a policeman and two others almost did. That and Putin taking over the Crimea should have been a huge wake up call to the west. NATO should have started preparing in the Baltics because they will be next. Biden and Harris are disappointingly useless. Afghanistan. Total disaster. Biden cared nothing about the women there. Watch the clip of him and read the Atlantic article. Of course, neither does Trump and his ilk. Just like they care nothing about Ukraine or anybody except themselves. Not letting Ukraine into NATO had more to do with the US being afraid of Putin than Ukraine's government. The US convinced them to give up their nuclear weapons and now have deserted them. It's all about the money. The far-right is dangerous and so is the far-left. If the Democrats don't wise up, they're going to lose in 2024.
What should we do? its a matter for a coalition, not us. We could lead it, but there are many organizations that are supposed to check this, often explicitly and directly like NATO or the UN. If they dont react proactively at this poinf, they are a joke. We cant use this dangerous moment and let it another sales op for the war machine. It always has, in conflict or without. Thats also why its vital to act as a group. Because he wont stop and sanctions only go so far.