"It is one thing to oppose the injustice of the health insurance industry. But if we dismiss the humanity of people who work in it or celebrate their deaths, we risk becoming the monsters we claim to oppose."
Honest question, Ben. Very interested in your reply.
If "health insurance industry" were replaced with "the Hamas attackers of Oct 7" or "Nazis" or "KKK", would you advocate we focus on the humanity with which they caused so many to die?
"I am vehemently opposed to the health insurance industry in America. It is a grotesquely dysfunctional, inefficient system that screws millions of people out of health care each year."
Ben, the part you keep leaving out is that it's dysfunctional *by design*.
Saying it's dysfunctional and inefficient makes it sound like it's just incompetently run. That the bad outcomes are an unfortunate result of the people running the industry not being good at their jobs. When the truth is they're quite good at their jobs which are to maximize shareholder profits by any means possible including denying claims that rightly should be paid.
In your recent Emergency Meeting podcast and here you're avoiding holding CEOs and other insurance executives responsible at all for their actions and decisions.
"[Brian Thompson] wasn’t spending his days plotting to kill Americans by denying them access to care, he was running a business that conformed to general industry standards."
First, the "spending his days plotting" is a cartoonish straw man. Nobody has said he sat at his desk, cackling over his latest plan to harm people and you shouldn't conjure up an image designed to make it sound like they had. He wasn't gleefully plotting to kill but the deaths he caused harm was the very foreseeable consequence of the policies and systems he put in place.
If the industry standard is "treat Jews like vermin" would that excuse the people who did? Hyperbolic example but the point remains. You're excusing someone who was instrumental in perpetuating horrible things because "that's the way things are done."
There is *nothing* preventing Thompson or any other CEO from saying "The standards for our industry, putting profit over lives, are abhorrent and immoral. We won't follow them. We'll do better." But they CHOOSE not to. They MAKE THE CHOICE to cause suffering and death. And you should at least acknowledge that rather than continue to make excuses for them.
"But let’s say I did compare a “soulless, profits-uber-alles insurance company CEO” to Jews targeted by terrorists. Would it be that far-fetched? Because this is exactly how Jews have been demonized and turned into legitimate targets for murder. In Nazi Germany, Jews became the “soulless, profits-uber-alles” destroyers of Europe."
No, you're twisting things a bit to make your comparison. In Nazi Germany Jews didn't "become" destroyers of Europe, they were FALSELY depicted that way by the Nazis.
By comparison, CEOs of medical insurance companies do indeed do what they've been accused of. They do put profits over the welfare of the people who hold their policies, often resulting in death for those people.
"We're happy to see Jews killed because they're out to destroy us" is based on a lie.
"We're happy to see CEOs killed because they are actively responsible for doing us harm" is based on truth.
I hear what you are saying Christopher. To be fair, I said it "wouldn't be that far fetched", so I wasn't making a direct comparison. Either way, dehumanizing people so their murders can be celebrated is never a good thing.
I agree dehumanizing people is wrong. But there are also some (many, alas) people whose removal from this world would be a good thing. Recognizing that someone is bad is not dehumanizing them.
I can certainly acknowledge that he (presumably) had people who cared for him and grieve his being gone from their lives. I can also recognize that he promoted misery and harm on a grand scale and the world is ever so slightly improved for having someone like him gone.
I think some forms of it work quite well. You can get private insurance in countries like France, Germany and Sinagapore, but it is far more strictly regulated than in the US.
But but but ... The media is a necessary part of the system in which we are all -- I too buy products, that are advertised on the media -- complicit. Sure, I hate the destruction of democracy & the building of concentration camps as much as the next man, but to single out Rupert Murdoch, who has wives and children, and is beloved in his community (Eichmann loved dogs) just bc he's doubled the industry average of egregious misconduct is ... well, it's just as bad as stealing from a cancer charity for children!
Well like I said in another post he was targeted for killing people from behind a desk. He was a mass murderer so I don't understand why he received so much time and attention. People are murdered every day my city averages 1 murder a day. The only reason it received the attention is did was because the corporate media billionaires freaked the fuck out thinking they were next. I honestly don't understand why his murder is special. For whatever reason the person who murdered him targeted him and carried out the murder. We aren't celebrating his murder but how is this different than people making jokes about exploding pagers that killed children? No I think you are blaming the left for something that isn't even our fault. So tired of since the election the blame game about the left and the democratic party/democratic leaders being silent. Idk maybe it's time Americans realize that elections have consequences and the Dems aren't going to ride in and save everyone from the consequences. The blame should be laid at the door of the people who voted for this monster and his chaos government. Stop piling on the Dems and call out the Republicans for their shit and the voters who wanted this shit show. The Dems are probably tired of saving America only to be stabbed in the back I know I am. Hopefully you change your perspective moving forward otherwise gonna be a long 4 years of blaming the wrong people for this shit storm about to happen.
Mostly agree, but you went too far in saying that Thomason’s company operated within general industry standards - it was denying claims at a much higher rate than competitors.
Yeah. The "just following industry standards" is the kind of a bullshit excuse I'd expect from someone like Kellyanne Conway. Am honestly surprised to hear it from Ben.
We have 4 healthcare systems in the United States, which makes getting everyone high quality and affordable care very difficult, costly, and ultimately unfair. We have the employment based insurance system, designed to reject claims. We have the VA, which is a state run health system for veterans. We have medicare, which is a state funded insurance system that cares for seniors and disabled people. And we have insurance exchanges (ACA), independent from employers but still relying on insurance companies whose profit imperative is to deny paying for care. Sooo complicated. Killing one CEO is neither helpful nor humane. And more on my other thoughts in my restack of this piece.
How do you compromise with those who refuse to compromise?
How do you negotiate with those who aren't interested in negotiating because they hold all the cards?
How do you reason with those who have no interest in reason?
If a CEO can't change a system, who can?
A fairly basic truth about human psychology, for good or ill, is that when all agency is removed, individuala will either choose to die of despair or to lash out.
Are we at the point where masses of people are making that decision?
These are the questions I find myself asking, and frankly, I think they're vastly better questions than "Is there too much glee that Brian Thompson was killed in a very public way in a very public place?"
It is a very complex system to navigate. To say an unarmed unprotected man deserves to be executed in the streets is akin to victim blaming and shaming.
Ben, I think this line of yours sums it up: "It is one thing to oppose the injustice of the health insurance industry. But if we dismiss the humanity of people who work in it or celebrate their deaths, we risk becoming the monsters we claim to oppose."
"It is one thing to oppose the injustice of the health insurance industry. But if we dismiss the humanity of people who work in it or celebrate their deaths, we risk becoming the monsters we claim to oppose."
Honest question, Ben. Very interested in your reply.
If "health insurance industry" were replaced with "the Hamas attackers of Oct 7" or "Nazis" or "KKK", would you advocate we focus on the humanity with which they caused so many to die?
"I am vehemently opposed to the health insurance industry in America. It is a grotesquely dysfunctional, inefficient system that screws millions of people out of health care each year."
Ben, the part you keep leaving out is that it's dysfunctional *by design*.
Saying it's dysfunctional and inefficient makes it sound like it's just incompetently run. That the bad outcomes are an unfortunate result of the people running the industry not being good at their jobs. When the truth is they're quite good at their jobs which are to maximize shareholder profits by any means possible including denying claims that rightly should be paid.
In your recent Emergency Meeting podcast and here you're avoiding holding CEOs and other insurance executives responsible at all for their actions and decisions.
"[Brian Thompson] wasn’t spending his days plotting to kill Americans by denying them access to care, he was running a business that conformed to general industry standards."
First, the "spending his days plotting" is a cartoonish straw man. Nobody has said he sat at his desk, cackling over his latest plan to harm people and you shouldn't conjure up an image designed to make it sound like they had. He wasn't gleefully plotting to kill but the deaths he caused harm was the very foreseeable consequence of the policies and systems he put in place.
If the industry standard is "treat Jews like vermin" would that excuse the people who did? Hyperbolic example but the point remains. You're excusing someone who was instrumental in perpetuating horrible things because "that's the way things are done."
There is *nothing* preventing Thompson or any other CEO from saying "The standards for our industry, putting profit over lives, are abhorrent and immoral. We won't follow them. We'll do better." But they CHOOSE not to. They MAKE THE CHOICE to cause suffering and death. And you should at least acknowledge that rather than continue to make excuses for them.
"But let’s say I did compare a “soulless, profits-uber-alles insurance company CEO” to Jews targeted by terrorists. Would it be that far-fetched? Because this is exactly how Jews have been demonized and turned into legitimate targets for murder. In Nazi Germany, Jews became the “soulless, profits-uber-alles” destroyers of Europe."
No, you're twisting things a bit to make your comparison. In Nazi Germany Jews didn't "become" destroyers of Europe, they were FALSELY depicted that way by the Nazis.
By comparison, CEOs of medical insurance companies do indeed do what they've been accused of. They do put profits over the welfare of the people who hold their policies, often resulting in death for those people.
"We're happy to see Jews killed because they're out to destroy us" is based on a lie.
"We're happy to see CEOs killed because they are actively responsible for doing us harm" is based on truth.
I hear what you are saying Christopher. To be fair, I said it "wouldn't be that far fetched", so I wasn't making a direct comparison. Either way, dehumanizing people so their murders can be celebrated is never a good thing.
Thanks for replying, Ben.
I agree dehumanizing people is wrong. But there are also some (many, alas) people whose removal from this world would be a good thing. Recognizing that someone is bad is not dehumanizing them.
I can certainly acknowledge that he (presumably) had people who cared for him and grieve his being gone from their lives. I can also recognize that he promoted misery and harm on a grand scale and the world is ever so slightly improved for having someone like him gone.
I have to question if health insurance is a necessary industry. Health care? For sure.
I think some forms of it work quite well. You can get private insurance in countries like France, Germany and Sinagapore, but it is far more strictly regulated than in the US.
The insurance companies have too much power here.
Equating backlash to US healthcare malfeasance to the German Holocaust is a stretch my aching bones just can't make -- sitting this one out.
But but but ... The media is a necessary part of the system in which we are all -- I too buy products, that are advertised on the media -- complicit. Sure, I hate the destruction of democracy & the building of concentration camps as much as the next man, but to single out Rupert Murdoch, who has wives and children, and is beloved in his community (Eichmann loved dogs) just bc he's doubled the industry average of egregious misconduct is ... well, it's just as bad as stealing from a cancer charity for children!
😊
Well like I said in another post he was targeted for killing people from behind a desk. He was a mass murderer so I don't understand why he received so much time and attention. People are murdered every day my city averages 1 murder a day. The only reason it received the attention is did was because the corporate media billionaires freaked the fuck out thinking they were next. I honestly don't understand why his murder is special. For whatever reason the person who murdered him targeted him and carried out the murder. We aren't celebrating his murder but how is this different than people making jokes about exploding pagers that killed children? No I think you are blaming the left for something that isn't even our fault. So tired of since the election the blame game about the left and the democratic party/democratic leaders being silent. Idk maybe it's time Americans realize that elections have consequences and the Dems aren't going to ride in and save everyone from the consequences. The blame should be laid at the door of the people who voted for this monster and his chaos government. Stop piling on the Dems and call out the Republicans for their shit and the voters who wanted this shit show. The Dems are probably tired of saving America only to be stabbed in the back I know I am. Hopefully you change your perspective moving forward otherwise gonna be a long 4 years of blaming the wrong people for this shit storm about to happen.
Mostly agree, but you went too far in saying that Thomason’s company operated within general industry standards - it was denying claims at a much higher rate than competitors.
Yeah. The "just following industry standards" is the kind of a bullshit excuse I'd expect from someone like Kellyanne Conway. Am honestly surprised to hear it from Ben.
We have 4 healthcare systems in the United States, which makes getting everyone high quality and affordable care very difficult, costly, and ultimately unfair. We have the employment based insurance system, designed to reject claims. We have the VA, which is a state run health system for veterans. We have medicare, which is a state funded insurance system that cares for seniors and disabled people. And we have insurance exchanges (ACA), independent from employers but still relying on insurance companies whose profit imperative is to deny paying for care. Sooo complicated. Killing one CEO is neither helpful nor humane. And more on my other thoughts in my restack of this piece.
How do you tolerate the intolerant?
How do you compromise with those who refuse to compromise?
How do you negotiate with those who aren't interested in negotiating because they hold all the cards?
How do you reason with those who have no interest in reason?
If a CEO can't change a system, who can?
A fairly basic truth about human psychology, for good or ill, is that when all agency is removed, individuala will either choose to die of despair or to lash out.
Are we at the point where masses of people are making that decision?
These are the questions I find myself asking, and frankly, I think they're vastly better questions than "Is there too much glee that Brian Thompson was killed in a very public way in a very public place?"
"If a CEO can't change a system, who can?"
Damned good question. Looking forward to Ben's answer.
It is a very complex system to navigate. To say an unarmed unprotected man deserves to be executed in the streets is akin to victim blaming and shaming.
Ben, I think this line of yours sums it up: "It is one thing to oppose the injustice of the health insurance industry. But if we dismiss the humanity of people who work in it or celebrate their deaths, we risk becoming the monsters we claim to oppose."
Now that we know the shooter is a right wing tech bro loving gun nut I wonder how many social media posts leftists are deleting today
And we're off to another messed up week,Ben. You guys over at MeidasTouch Network Keep it Real for us, Thank You and will reStack ASAP 💯👍❄️🎄⛄